Tomaten Dunger
 

I sent the North American Neudorff Rep. an email concerning the non-availability of Tomaten Dunger in North America and here is the response I received. Ami

Theodore. Firstly thanks for buying our product. Unfortunately in the short term we cannot sell this product in the US. Fertilizers require a registration. However we'll look deeper into the idea of registering/selling our fertilizers in the US.

Thanks
Cam

Cam Wilson
Vice President
Neudorff North America

Ami,

Thanks for your efforts on this!!! Can you send me Cam's direct email address?

My son runs a commercial Hydroponics store in Santa Fe, NM. and I am going to ask him to get in touch with the Neudorff folks to see if he can stock it in his store. Will keep all posted.

Raybo:D:D

Well if Honda and Hyundai can manufacture cars in the US maybe... Neudorff folks can set up manufacturing facilities here and produce their fine product for this market or at least have a facility in the US produce their product rather than shipping it into the country.

George

Ray, Here it is. Ami

[B]Cam Wilson[/B] (cam@neudorff.ca)

It's not so much the production (tho the shipping would add a lot to the cost) but like he said "registration".

Actually since my hubby worked for 20 years in the fertilizer biz, I think Cam may be be mis-understanding the laws. As best as I understood them, only fertilizers that had some pesticide type chemical added to the formula needed to be registered. ex - things like "Weed & Feed". I'm not familiar with that product so I don't know if there is anything in Tomaten Dunger that would require registration.

The company my husband worked for is known as a "blender" and came up with custom formulas on the fly for customers. They wouldn't have been able to do that if every formula had to be registered.

Of course there could be different rules when importing is involved. I know there were all kinds of hoops that had to be jumped thru when they exported something to Taiwan.

If Tomaten Dunger is just a special formula, possibly it could be produced here in the USA under license.

Carol

I wonder if the micro-organisms in it are why it would be difficult to import? I would hazard a guess that the USDA would require some sort of testing or special license before they'd let it in the country.

I looked up the Tomaten Dunger translated page and see something called MyccoVital mycorrhiza as the additive. So far tho I can't find any page other than other shops selling Tomaten Dunger when I look for info about MyccoVital.

Carol

I don't know about testing or licensing exactly, but I do know that other rooting activator and/or hormone products have had to show proof of efficasee (sp?) before they could be sold in states like Cali and Wi.

Personally I like and use a product in my greenhouse that the state of Wi keeps trying to ban. I believe it makes a difference for me, but often products like that only have "hearsay" proof that the stuff works.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

After looking at 20 + Google pages, all in German, and nothing that I could figure out being anything other than mention of the product with MyccoVital added, my guess is that MyccoVital is made by that same company and not sold seperately. A "proprietary" product.

Carol

There is also the 'certified organic' certification process which is a pay-for certification.

I just lost the post I made...sigh.

I don't know if I'd use a ratio like that for tomatoes & peppers.

What are some of the ingredients? That other link most varieties on their website seemed similar #s.

Mycho you can get from certain promix blends.

What is all the hoopla I'm missing?

The hoopla regarding Tomaten Dunger is that Ray found that it worked better than old Tomato Tone producing a very strong healthy plant in a SWC. Since finding the last of the old Tomato Tone around No VA last year I'm looking to blend something that will provide the necessary nutrients for Tomatoes grown in Self Wattering Containers this year and into the future.

On a side note the hint to use Messenger to inhibit powdery mildew seems to be working this year. I'll also start my spraying with potassium bicarbonate mix next week and continue through the season.

George

Korney,

Last Season in my quest to find a suitable replacement for the "Old" Tomato-tone, Ami had sent me the fertilizer that he was using with excellent results. I grew out 2 Celebrity plants in my Fall Season, comparing a 50/50 blend of the Old and New Tomato-tones vs. the Tomaten Dunger. The Celebrity in the Tomaten Dunger was more productive and lived longer than the Celebrity in the 50/50 Tomato-tones.

This Season, I am taking a more "scientific" approach, with the "Old" Tomato-tone in one 'Tainer on this pair of Goose Creek plants:

[IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/rnewste/IMG_9507.jpg[/IMG]

A second 'Tainer with 2 more Goose Creek plants in the "New" Tomato-tone:

[IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/rnewste/IMG_9505.jpg[/IMG]

And a third 'Tainer with another pair of Goose Creek plants in Tomaten Dunger:

[IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/rnewste/IMG_9506.jpg[/IMG]

All have identical 3:2:1 Combo Mix, they all get the same water amount, and Sun exposure. This is as close a clinical trial as I could run. I'll post results throughout the growing Season.

Raybo:D

So what was better, the plant size? fruit size? number of fruit? taste?

Did you have one fert in one box & another in a different box, or 1 fert on 1 side and another fert on the other side of the box?

What were the NPK's of the 3 products?

I'm still trying to warm up to the EarthTainer way, need to go over the plans & methods better when I can sit down & study everything better. I'm just curious why it seems so much different regarding ferts used in more conventional methods. For example, with 4 or 5 gallon containers using drip fertigation, my best results have always been by using a hi-P fert like a bloom booster or 10-52-8 for the first month, then switching to a more balanced fert, like Plantex 15-15-18 or M-G for Tomatoes 18-19-21 (or whatever the exact #s are.) Using these results, I've had Sophie's Choice with 15+ tomatoes, (6 to 12oz each), Crnkovic Yugoslavian with over 4 dozen (49) 12 to 18oz fruits, 2lb Oleyar's Germans in 3 gallons of media, Supersweet 100's in 6-quart pots, etc. I guess I don't understand the push towards higher N ratios, unless it is compensating for a lack somewhere else or extra N is needed because of the pine bark or ??? With lower N higher P ferts, I find production/yield/output up quite more (100-300%.)

Korney,

Ideally, the Container type or in-ground growing shouldn't make that much of a difference. All I am evaluating is how various fertilizers that are advertised a "Tomato" fertilizers perform. One could do this in the ground, but there are many variables there that are difficult to control and keep uniform.

My goal is to simply find a new fertilizer that performs equally as well as the now discontinued 4-7-10 original formula Tomato-tone, which I loved.

Raybo

What is the new TT, 3-4-6? A mix of old & new would be about 4-5-8.

What is the German fert NPK?

[quote=geeboss;164866]The hoopla regarding Tomaten Dunger is that Ray found that it worked better than old Tomato Tone producing a very strong healthy plant in a SWC. Since finding the last of the old Tomato Tone around No VA last year I'm looking to blend something that will provide the necessary nutrients for Tomatoes grown in Self Wattering Containers this year and into the future.

On a side note the hint to use Messenger to inhibit powdery mildew seems to be working this year. I'll also start my spraying with potassium bicarbonate mix next week and continue through the season.

George[/quote]

Does it have to be organic? If not, see if you can get the Plantex I use, it's 15-15-18 with minors for soilless mixes.


[SIZE=1]This fertilizer contains boron, copper, manganese, molybdenum, and zinc, and should be used only as recommended. It may prove harmful when misused [/SIZE]


[B][SIZE=1]GUARANTEED MINIMUM ANALYSIS/ ANALYSE MINIMUM GARANTIE: [/SIZE][/B]
[FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]Total nitrogen/ Azote totale (N) ........................................ 15% [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Available phosphoric acid/ [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Acide phosphorique assimilable (P[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]2[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]O[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]5[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]) ....................... 15% [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Soluble Potash/ Potasse soluble (K[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]2[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]O) ............................ 18% [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Magnesium/Magnésium (Mg) ....................................... 0.15% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Boron (actual) /Bore (réel) (B) ....................................... 0.02% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Chelated copper (actual) / [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Cuivre chélaté (réel) (Cu) .......................................... 0.05% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Chelated iron (actual) /Fer chélaté (réel) (Fe) ............... 0.10% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Chelated manganese (actual) / [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Manganèse chélaté (réel) (Mn) ................................. 0.05% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Molybdenum (actual) / Molybdène (réel) (Mo) ............ 0.015% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]Chelated zinc (actual) /Zinc chélaté (réel) (Zn) ............. 0.05% [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial]EDTA [/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1](ethylene diamine tetraacetate) (chelating agent)/(éthylène diamine tétraacétique) (agent chélatant) [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1][FONT=Arial,Arial][SIZE=1]................................ 2.5% [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

Mark, Neudorff Tomaten Dunger is a 7-3-10 with micro's and also has sulphur and calcium plus Mycorrhiza. It is a slow/extended release fertilizer that is ideal for SWC's which is what Ray is looking for. One application and your done.
Your Plantex is a soiless feed and from what I can see is more like a hydro feed. Plus folks using Mycorrhiza in their growing regimen want to stay away from high phosphorous ferts. Ami

I'm experimenting with Ringer Lawn Restore Fertilizer 10-2-6
Contains all-natural ingredients: (feather meal, bone meal, and soybean meal) in a balanced, slow release formula that delivers nitrogen (10%), phosphate (2%) and potassium (6%) to the soil.



This is for starting the plants growing in the SWC and when the plants flower I'll change to Od Tomato Tone 4-7-10 / Ringer mix 50/50 to bring the nitrogen down during fruit growing and pushing Potassium up to aid in fruit development.

[quote=amideutch;164897]Mark, Neudorff Tomaten Dunger is a 7-3-10 with micro's and also has sulphur and calcium plus Mycorrhiza. It is a slow/extended release fertilizer that is ideal for SWC's which is what Ray is looking for. One application and your done.
Your Plantex is a soiless feed and from what I can see is more like a hydro feed. Plus folks using Mycorrhiza in their growing regimen want to stay away from high phosphorous ferts. Ami[/quote]


I keep forgetting that P over 5 or 8 renders Myco useless/dead.

I spent some time looking at Plantex labels and formulations and found that they have a hydroponic [B][U]tomato[/U][/B] formula, but it is 4-18-37, much, much different ratios than you two have been using.

I also found another unusual formula, 19-4-12 "[B][SIZE=4][SIZE=2]ONE SEASON TOPDRESS CONTROLLED RELEASE NURSERY FERTILIZER[/SIZE]." [/SIZE][/B]

[SIZE=4][LEFT][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/LEFT]
[SIZE=2]*The nitrogen, phosphate and potash materials in this product have been coated to provide 19% coated slow release nitrogen (N), 4% coated slow release available phosphoric acid (P2O5) and 9% coated slow release soluble potash (K2O).[/SIZE][SIZE=1] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][LEFT][/LEFT]
[SIZE=1][SIZE=2]"Only to be applied as a surface treatment, not to be incorporated. 19-4-12 should be applied according the specific nutrient requirements of the crop being grown.[/SIZE] "[/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][SIZE=2]It's mostly nursury plants & flowers though.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=1][SIZE=2]Perhaps the German fert did better than the Tomato Tone mix due to higher N & K? When you combine ferts, you don't add the numbers.[/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

I'm trying a fertilizer this year that my mother swears by. Its a 6-2-2 with calcium and magnesium. I'm going to use it on about half of my plants in my raised beds. I'll share my results at the end of season.

[quote=amideutch;164897]Mark, Neudorff Tomaten Dunger is a 7-3-10 with micro's and also has sulphur and calcium plus Mycorrhiza. It is a slow/extended release fertilizer that is ideal for SWC's which is what Ray is looking for. One application and your done.
Your Plantex is a soiless feed and from what I can see is more like a hydro feed. Plus folks using Mycorrhiza in their growing regimen want to stay away from high phosphorous ferts. Ami[/quote]


Now that I'm awake:

Ted, Ray, et al, would there be that much doubt that a 7 - 3 - 10 fert with micros & myco should outperform a 3.5 - 5.5 - 8 fert? It obviously has 2x the N as the TT blend.

What results specifically were better with the Dunger than the Tomato Tone blend? I also assume they were confined to different SWC's too, no?

And another question: is organic growing important or even a goal in the case of SWCs? There isn't exactly "soil" that you try to "build" and do you hope to energize it enough to extend its season to multiple seasons? Does it get reused?

Have any used a more "typical" fruiting formula/ratio fertilizer with good results? Something with N lower than P & K?

And finally, are there any concerns about heavy metals in an enclosed system like this? It's not like in-ground where they can get leached away. I don't have the #s for the Tomato Tone but recall that the Garden Tone & Plant Tone have about 24 times as much arsenic as M-G 15-30-15.

[quote=danwigz;164937]I'm trying a fertilizer this year that my mother swears by. Its a 6-2-2 with calcium and magnesium. I'm going to use it on about half of my plants in my raised beds. I'll share my results at the end of season.[/quote]

Will you be comparing it to no fertilizer at all, or to a different fertilizer on the other plants?

korney,

The Celebrity with Tomaten Dunger was more productive by about 15%. Also, the plant lived about 6 weeks longer than the one with Tomato-tone. On the other hand, the plant in Tomato-tone produced the first ripe fruit 2 weeks earlier than the plant in Tomaten Dunger. Coincidence? Maybe. That is why I am doing the same evaluations on multiple Goose Creek plants this Season, and will document the rsults in photos.

BTW, I am also using Osmocote, Fox Farms Peace of Mind, E.B.Stone Tomato and a 14-14-14 CRF in other 'Tainers as compared to Tomato-tone. It is truly amazing to me that all of these Companies claim theirs is a "tomato fertilizer" yet the N-P-K ratios vary all over the map!!:shock:

Trial and error will be my best reference source on what works in an EarthTainer environment. Your in-ground results may vary....

Raybo

Raybo

Ringer Lawn Restore 10-2-6 combined with Peace of Mind 7-4-5 50/50 blend will come close to the Foliage Pro 9-3-6 for a test of liquid vs granular.

George

George,

What appealed to me with the "Old" Tomato-tone were the Micros that Espoma added, specifically for tomato production. Most of those ingredients are no longer included in the "New" Tomato-tone. Compare the details in the respective labels:

[IMG]http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/rnewste/img180.jpg[/IMG]

So, I am concerned a basic lawn fertilizer is missing these additives that would be difficult to replicate beyond compiling a simple 4-7-10 NPK.:evil:

Raybo

[quote=korney19;164963]Will you be comparing it to no fertilizer at all, or to a different fertilizer on the other plants?[/quote]

That's a good question. I think I'll probably be comparing it to no fertilizer at all. In the past I've never had a problem with the size of the plant nor the quantity of tomatoes; last year I didn't use any and had cherries coming out... well I had a lot.

I did use miracle garden soil mix in my raised bed, so there was some amount of fertilizer, in my new beds I'll be adding that in as well so I guess there will be some now that I think of it.

Dan