Seedling problems....

sirtanon · August 17, 2006

I'm not sure if I should be worried about this or not, but it appears that quite a few of my tomato seedlings are having some odd problems..

On some, the cotyledons are starting to go a bit brown at the tip, some are even curling back a bit..

..on some, the new true leaves are visible, but are pointing at odd angles, almost like they're bowing their little heads in shame..

..lastly, quite a few of them are going a bit yellow.. like they're not getting enough nutrients or something..

Can anyone offer any advice, suggestions?

- Eric

feldon30 · August 17, 2006

Dumb question, but did you start them in "seed starting mix" or heat-sterilized potting mix or something else?

Once they have true leaves, they do seem to benefit from a spritz of weak solution of fish or kelp emulsion.

**Lee** · August 17, 2006

Actually, that's a really good question.

What did you use to start your seeds? I have encountered
problems with seed starting even in "seed starting" mix.

I will say, don't fret.... even transplanting at this stage in
a better mix will quickly alleviate problems.....

Lee

sirtanon · August 17, 2006

All of my seeds this time around have been started in standard Walmart potting mix, just as I've done in years past. I've never really used 'seed starting mix' before, as it never really seemed necessary.

Feldon - I do not have any fish or kelp emulsion, but I have watered them once or twice with a very dilute Miracle Grow solution.

Lee - As far as better mix goes, I think I might pick up some Supersoil or MG soil.. or even Kellogg's Patio Plus. Have you had experience with any of these? I have not used the MG soil, but I have used the other two and they seem pretty good.

- Eric

chilhuacle · August 17, 2006

I think you are fertilizing way too early, especially if you are using a potting mix with fertilizer already added. I wouldn't add miracle grow at any dilution to a seedling in a cup. They also need to dry out a bit between waterings.

feldon30 · August 20, 2006

Seed starting mix contains NO soil, NO fungus, NO mold, NO bacteria. Anything with "soil", even potting "soil" can cause your seedlings to die. "Damping off" is a term that describes a few different kinds of fungus that kill the seedling before or shortly after it emerges from the ground.

If you are using tools, trays, pots, etc. from last year, it may be worth washing them in hot water and or even sterilizing them in boiling water for a few seconds.

This was my first year doing any of this, so I just went the cautious route. I had no problems with seedlings dying, but I did have a lack of germination from planting the seeds too deep, especially cherry/roma varieties.

I would be very surprised if you cannot find seed starting mix since Miracle Gro and Scotts both vend this product at Home Depot and Lowe's. It's usually in a small 10 quart bag away from the big bags of potting soil and mix. There's nothing wrong with these mixes containing a little bit of phosphorous booster for root development. Once the seedlings have a set or two of true leaves, I'd spritz them with diluted seaweed/kelp or fish emulsion. Again, these should be available at Wal-Mart.

If you just can't find seed starting mix, you can buy compressed sphagnum peat moss (try to get with no fertilizer or other junk, just 100% peat) and a bag of perlite or vermiculite (again with no fert) and mix them together (I do about 30% perlite/verm. to 70% peat moss). Because peat moss is hydrophobic, you'll want to put some of this soil in a large mixing bowl and then add water and mix together with your hands or just let it soak for an hour until the water is fully absorbed.

sirtanon · August 20, 2006

I found a small bag of peat moss at Walmart and got myself some seed starting mix mixed up. I've started another set of seeds and I'm hoping to have better luck with these.

The thing I'm noticing now is that my plants are barely growing.. It's been about 3 weeks now since they first popped their heads out, and they've barely even got a set of leaves. The biggest one has only two leaves that are about 1/2 the size of a dime.

To me, this seems very slow..

Shouldn't it be more like 2 weeks to a decent sized set of leaves?

I don't recall my seed-starting last year to have this many problems

kimpossible · August 20, 2006

I have an aversion to buying anything with MiracleGro on the label!

(No offence to anyone who does buy it).

I just try to go organic, and there are lots of other companies that offer "soiless mix" or "seed starting mix".

I buy huge bales of it from my local garden centre - much more economical that way. Usually it is a generic, or small company and the price is very reasonable, & I feel better about supporting a smaller company - just my feelings on the matter ... no judgement to others, one way or the other :wink: !

tylenol · August 21, 2006

sirtanon,

What kind of lighting arrangement are you using ?

Rob

sirtanon · August 21, 2006

I started off using a single shop light setup with two cool white plus bulbs.. then I hooked up a second one that was pretty much the same setup.

A couple notes...

1) The shop lights are about 2 years old, give or take... so are the bulbs... and they sat in self storage for about 6 months - 2+ months of which was over 100 degrees.

2) The 2nd shop light actually seems to have a problem with one of its sockets - only one bulb seems to light. Maybe a ballast issue?

..so now that you mention it.. do these things lose a lot of effectiveness as they age?

-- I have gone back to just the one shop light setup and replaced the bulbs with new cool white bulbs.. but I'm not sure if the light looks quite right. Should I just replace the shop light assembly altogether?

travis · August 21, 2006

Is there any way you can use natural sunlight?

Can you set the seedlings outdoors and use a screening cloth over a little hoop hut until they harden off?

Can you just go ahead and germinate them outdoors in a place that's not in direct hot sun and then slowly move them out under a screen cloth until they harden off?

I guess I'm wonderin' why you're startin' them indoors this time of year.

PV

tylenol · August 21, 2006

sirtanon.

I posted on your other thread:

How long from sprout to ready ?

Rob

sirtanon · August 21, 2006

Quote:

Is there any way you can use natural sunlight?

Can you set the seedlings outdoors and use a screening cloth over a little hoop hut until they harden off?

Can you just go ahead and germinate them outdoors in a place that's not in direct hot sun and then slowly move them out under a screen cloth until they harden off?

Well, I would LOVE to either start them outdoors or set them outside to get sunlight and harden off... but...

Yesterday, it got up to 106 degrees.. Friday was 104. I did place them all outside on Wednesday morning just to try to get them a little extra sun power, and about 1/3 of them were dead or dying by noon. It's just too hot still.. and talk about sunny 8)

feldon30 · August 21, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimpossible

I have an aversion to buying anything with MiracleGro on the label!

(No offence to anyone who does buy it).

Oh, I agree with you. It was just the first picture I found.

I ended up using Scotts soilless seed starting mix (I know that's not much better if you are upset with the parent companie(s)), which is not "enriched with Miracle Gro". If you buy Miracle Gro Perlite, it's "enriched with Miracle Gro". I mean come on, how do you "enrich" a bunch of rocks? Ridikkulus!

The only good thing about those soiless mixes is that they have had a wetting agent added which means they readily absorb water. Make-your-own mix just sits there moping for an hour before it decides to soak up the water. And I know of no way to buy wetting agent.

Suze · August 21, 2006

Re seed starting mix -- I just chip off what I need from a compressed bale of Pro-Mix. A lot quicker and cheaper for me, as I almost always have a bale or two in the garage anyway.

As far as potting soil goes, I simply won't use it for seed starting -- learned that one the hard way. Thought it worked great until the first time I had a problem with it. :wink:

August 17, 2006	#1
sirtanon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ (zone 9b) Posts: 796	Seedling problems.... I'm not sure if I should be worried about this or not, but it appears that quite a few of my tomato seedlings are having some odd problems.. On some, the cotyledons are starting to go a bit brown at the tip, some are even curling back a bit.. ..on some, the new true leaves are visible, but are pointing at odd angles, almost like they're bowing their little heads in shame.. ..lastly, quite a few of them are going a bit yellow.. like they're not getting enough nutrients or something.. Can anyone offer any advice, suggestions? - Eric

August 17, 2006	#2
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Dumb question, but did you start them in "seed starting mix" or heat-sterilized potting mix or something else? Once they have true leaves, they do seem to benefit from a spritz of weak solution of fish or kelp emulsion. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

August 17, 2006	#3
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	Actually, that's a really good question. What did you use to start your seeds? I have encountered problems with seed starting even in "seed starting" mix. I will say, don't fret.... even transplanting at this stage in a better mix will quickly alleviate problems..... Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

August 17, 2006	#5
chilhuacle Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Concord CA z9b, just west of Tomatoville Posts: 415	I think you are fertilizing way too early, especially if you are using a potting mix with fertilizer already added. I wouldn't add miracle grow at any dilution to a seedling in a cup. They also need to dry out a bit between waterings. __________________ Give a person a fish and you feed them for a day; teach a person to use the Internet and they won't bother you for weeks. Bruce

August 20, 2006	#6
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Seed starting mix contains NO soil, NO fungus, NO mold, NO bacteria. Anything with "soil", even potting "soil" can cause your seedlings to die. "Damping off" is a term that describes a few different kinds of fungus that kill the seedling before or shortly after it emerges from the ground. If you are using tools, trays, pots, etc. from last year, it may be worth washing them in hot water and or even sterilizing them in boiling water for a few seconds. This was my first year doing any of this, so I just went the cautious route. I had no problems with seedlings dying, but I did have a lack of germination from planting the seeds too deep, especially cherry/roma varieties. I would be very surprised if you cannot find seed starting mix since Miracle Gro and Scotts both vend this product at Home Depot and Lowe's. It's usually in a small 10 quart bag away from the big bags of potting soil and mix. There's nothing wrong with these mixes containing a little bit of phosphorous booster for root development. Once the seedlings have a set or two of true leaves, I'd spritz them with diluted seaweed/kelp or fish emulsion. Again, these should be available at Wal-Mart. If you just can't find seed starting mix, you can buy compressed sphagnum peat moss (try to get with no fertilizer or other junk, just 100% peat) and a bag of perlite or vermiculite (again with no fert) and mix them together (I do about 30% perlite/verm. to 70% peat moss). Because peat moss is hydrophobic, you'll want to put some of this soil in a large mixing bowl and then add water and mix together with your hands or just let it soak for an hour until the water is fully absorbed. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

August 20, 2006	#8
kimpossible Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Z5b SW Ont Canada Posts: 767	I have an aversion to buying anything with MiracleGro on the label! (No offence to anyone who does buy it). I just try to go organic, and there are lots of other companies that offer "soiless mix" or "seed starting mix". I buy huge bales of it from my local garden centre - much more economical that way. Usually it is a generic, or small company and the price is very reasonable, & I feel better about supporting a smaller company - just my feelings on the matter ... no judgement to others, one way or the other :wink: ! __________________ *So Many Tomatoes ... So Little Time*

August 21, 2006	#9
tylenol Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Chatsworth,Calif. Posts: 117	sirtanon, What kind of lighting arrangement are you using ? Rob

August 21, 2006	#11
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Is there any way you can use natural sunlight? Can you set the seedlings outdoors and use a screening cloth over a little hoop hut until they harden off? Can you just go ahead and germinate them outdoors in a place that's not in direct hot sun and then slowly move them out under a screen cloth until they harden off? I guess I'm wonderin' why you're startin' them indoors this time of year. PV

August 21, 2006	#15
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	Re seed starting mix -- I just chip off what I need from a compressed bale of Pro-Mix. A lot quicker and cheaper for me, as I almost always have a bale or two in the garage anyway. As far as potting soil goes, I simply won't use it for seed starting -- learned that one the hard way. Thought it worked great until the first time I had a problem with it. :wink: