911 !! Help, plants are yellowing. What is the answer for this?

[Indyartist]

Epsom Salts and Molasses will be bought this morning. If I can figure things out on these early plants my main growing might not suffer the same fate. I will start applying additional nutrients earlier with my next "patients". All was well with these early plants until about week 3 and became pronounced by week 4.

[RayR]

Take it easy on the nutrients, the worse thing to do is overdo it at this point. I see you are using peat pots. I've had problems with yellowing before with peat pots in the past, but it was not a nutrient issue, it was a moisture issue, mainly they were drying out real fast and the roots weren't getting enough water.

[ireilly]

Check the acidity too. Peat pots plus a peat mixture may mean too low a pH. Testers are not too pricey. Or just add a little bit of garden lime as a test.

[b54red]

Whenever I have a bunch of plants that yellow too much I use some chelated iron supplement along with a little Miracle Grow and they usually green up good after one treatment; but sometimes need a second dose a week later. I have never lost a seedling from yellowing with this treatment but I never use peat pots and they could be your main problem. You can also repot the yellow ones into some slightly larger styrofoam or cheap plastic cups and then fertilize the fresh mix.

[Indyartist]

Originally Posted by b54red

Whenever I have a bunch of plants that yellow too much I use some chelated iron supplement along with a little Miracle Grow and they usually green up good after one treatment; but sometimes need a second dose a week later. I have never lost a seedling from yellowing with this treatment but I never use peat pots and they could be your main problem. You can also repot the yellow ones into some slightly larger styrofoam or cheap plastic cups and then fertilize the fresh mix.

What is your chelated iron supplement and another question is why is/would the peat pot cause yellowing?

[ireilly]

Ironite is a popular granlated lawn product but I'm unsure of what is used here. Not sure what Bill means but I was pointing out that extreme acidity binds ions in the soil so locks up nutrients ordinarily mobile. It does have to be extreme though. And I wasn't pointing solely to it as a cause, sometimes these issues are multicausal, but it's cheap to test for.

Edited to add that many mixes compensate for the acidity of peat by adding alkalinity too. Depends on how much peat there is really and how acidic it is.

[Indyartist]

Originally Posted by ireilly

Ironite is a popular granlated lawn product but I'm unsure of what is used here. Not sure what Bill means but I was pointing out that extreme acidity binds ions in the soil so locks up nutrients ordinarily mobile. It does have to be extreme though. And I wasn't pointing solely to it as a cause, sometimes these issues are multicausal, but it's cheap to test for.

Edited to add that many mixes compensate for the acidity of peat by adding alkalinity too. Depends on how much peat there is really and how acidic it is.

I'm adding acidity to my list of possible problems. I'll see about the Lime or tester.

[dice]

There were problems in the past with toxic "inert ingredients"
in Ironite. (A web search will probably still turn up the horror
stories.) It seems that it was manufactured from industrial waste,
and the manufacturer was simply not worried about what might
be in it that you would not want in your garden. (No big deal if
landscapers were simply using it on commercial landscape
plants, or golf courses were using it, and other applications
that are not edible anyway.) I do not know if the problems have
since been rectified.

Molasses contains some iron. Many fertilizers do, too. I usually
use this Fert-all stuff if the molasses, etc, are having no effect,
and the symptoms are clearly those of iron defiency:
http://www.plantsthatproduce.com/pro...Iron+_JUG.html

The Fert-all product is easily diluted and foliar fed, and it is
already chelated so that it will be easily absorbed. Any
hydroponics store probably has plenty of equivalent products
(in smaller quantities for higher prices, likely).

Iron deficiency is easy to recognize, once you have seen it.
It starts in the new leaves at the top of the plant and works
its way down. They start to turn white, then yellow, while
the veins of the leaves remain green until it gets really severe.

This guide has explanations and pictures of a lot of different
kinds of mineral deficiency in tomato plants:
http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=5&id=289

[ireilly]

Sorry, should have added that to raise pH, you want garden (or agricultural) lime or dolomitic (or magnesium) lime, either is a pulverized limestone product, versus quicklime or slaked lime that is burnt limestone and highly caustic.

Thanks for the caution on Ironite. I have only used it once on the lawn. I won't use it again if it has toxins in it, lawn or otherwise.

Walter

[puttgirl]

I agree with some others, by the look of the leaves I'd guess iron deficiency-molasses would help with that also.

[casino]

Excellent post. For years I have always placed one handfull of plain white sugar in the planting hole when I set my tomatoes in the ground with wonderfull results. When my tomatoes start looking a little "tired" i toss a 5 lb bag of sugar all over the garden and watch things perk up overnight. I use plain sugar as a sticker to my veggie sprays and after reading this most excellent post I think I will try the molasses. I really like the additional micro nutrients found in molasses.

[Indyartist]

Alright, molasses, epsom salt tonic water added to the plants that could use watering and the others were dipped. I do have a question though, is this one teaspoon of each, molasses and epson, per gallon good as an every time watering for the plants or should it be less frequent? Another question would be, would one teaspoon of each PLUS the addition of one half strength fertilizer be the perfect potion for everyday watering?

[dice]

I would probably go every 2 weeks with the molasses, probably
monthly or every 6 weeks with the epsom salts. Once your plants
are in the garden, they may not need the epsom salts again.
It depends on how much magnesium is in your soil and/or
fertilizer. (A lot of people have somewhat acid soil, ph 6.0 or
below, and they add dolomite lime to bring it up to around
ph 6.5. The dolomite is half magnesium, so their plants get
enough once they are in the ground.)

With something like Peters or Miracle Grow soluble fertilizers,
I would use less on seedlings, like 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of
water. That is usually plenty of N-P-K to keep them going. You
can mix that with the molasses and/or epsom salts when
watering the container mix without problems.

The issue with peat pots (not peat pellets, but the actual pots
that are made out of compressed peat moss that one then fills
with seed-starting or potting mix) is that they wick water away
from the growing media. They absorb water from the potting
mix, and it evaporates away all around the peat pot. This causes
them to dry out a lot faster than plastic pots at the same air
temperatures, so one needs to pay closer attention to how wet
the potting mix in the peat pot is and water more often than
with plastic pots. Something like this moisture meter has been
helpful to me in knowing when I need to water seedlings:
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CEgQ8wIwAg#

Any hardware store with a garden department will have one,
usually under $10.

I also use a pH meter, although that has been more useful
testing the soil in the garden and in containers than in
seed-starting mix (which has reliably been between ph 6.0
and 7.0, good enough for seedlings):
http://www.amazon.com/Luster-Leaf-18.../dp/B0000DI848

I have that exact model of pH meter, and it reads .1 low across
the scale (tested with pH meter calibrating solution), which is
close enough for knowing whether your soil needs lime or sulfur
(to adjust pH up or down).

I have never used one of those soil testers (looks like the
moisture meter) that is claimed to test pH, moisture, fertility,
light exposure, etc, all in one tool, so I have no idea whether
they actually work or not. The separate moisture meter and
pH meter have worked fine for me.

[ireilly]

Good info as always dice.

The thing that I think is driving IndyArtist nuts is why only some of his seedlings are having the issue when all have presumably been treated the same way (and possibly are from the same lots of seeds).

The only other thing I would add is these things are tougher than you think they are.

But I think you are better off just growing som extras because something will usually get some of them. Mine are outside so I always come home to find something has eaten them, or the like. So I grow extras and some will be composted or given away if they make it.

Good luck.