The best place to buy quality seeds.

[jeremyhilton]

Well this being the first year I grew from seed, I really would like to get some quality seeds for next year knowing how much work goes in to raising them.

I am looking for everyone's opinion on who they think has the best quality seeds and why. Also I am in Zone 7B so I really want to focus on the earlier varieties for next year.
Thanks so much in advance,
Jeremy

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[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jeremyhilton

Well this being the first year I grew from seed, I really would like to get some quality seeds for next year knowing how much work goes in to raising them.

I am looking for everyone's opinion on who they think has the best quality seeds and why. Also I am in Zone 7B so I really want to focus on the earlier varieties for next year.
Thanks so much in advance,
Jeremy

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Jeremy, have you looked in the seed and plant resources Forum at the top of the page?

There you'll find many seed companies listed and comments about them.

There must be a bazillion threads here at TVill where folks have listed their faves but it's too hot and I'm too lazy so I'll just list a few of mine. It's been many years since I oredered seeds but I do know the owners of many of the seed companies and do send seeds for trial to quite a few, and have been posting online about tomatoes since the mid=80's and have seen lots of feedback and did do a wrong varieties thread at Garden Wefor a few years.

That being said.

First, no place that sells open pollinated seeds has a perfect record and never will, just b'c of the way that seed productiob for OP's is done. It's one thing for a hime grower to bag blossoms but quite another for commercial places growing hundreds of plants each year to do the same. Commercial places have three ways of getting OP seed: produce all their own, subcontract out seed productio, buy off the shelf wholsale, and most do a combo of those methods.

Seed quality is one issue, for sure, but price of seeds and cutomer service are almost as important. Another issue is seed age and the first two lsited below sell no seed over 2 yo which is quite remarkable.

That being said, here are some that I can suggest you look into.

Sandhill Preservation
Gleckler seedmen
Casey's Heirlooms of Airdrie
Victory Seeds
Tania's tomato base
Tomato Growers Supply

This is not a complete list, first, and if you look in the Forum I mentioned here at Tville you can have the direct links or you can do it via Google.

I could add Johnny's and Pinetree and others but I've elected to list those places that specialize in OP varieties, and with TGS also hybrids.

So seed quality and I'll add TRUENESS of seeds are an important part of the picture but not the whole picture.

And often seed site recs are a moving target sonce some had a lot of problems with trueness of seeds some years and not others. And some have germination problems with some of the seeds they offer some eyars and not other years.

So there will never be ONE definitive list as I see it.

if you want to concentrate on early varieties I suggest you go to both Tania and Jeff Casey's sites since they have a separate list devoted exclusively to early varieties. Being in a zone 7 I'm not so sure why the early varieties, but there you go.

And yes, there are places I would NEVER suggest that folks order from but on an upbeat note I didn't list any of those.

[oc tony]

I think you should first be looking for varietys that grow well in your area, with your amount of rain and cloudy days that's a bigger problem than seed quality. I'm sure Tomatoville members who live in your area will have recommendations for you along with good growing tips.

[biscgolf]

johnny's is the standard by which i measure all the rest... huge selection, high quality, super informative catalog (one of my most useful growing resources is their catalog- just got to keep in mind that their info is written for maine for the most part)

[Elizabeth]

Wherever you buy from be sure that you check your mailbox early and often when you are expecting them. I had a shipment of seeds a couple of years ago that toasty fried in my street side mailbox all day long on a hot day (huge ooops!) - I had very low germination on all those seeds.

[jeremyhilton]

Awesome! Thanks everyone for the advice! Once again Carolyn your knowledge amazes me! Biscgolf I just ordered $50 worth of some good varieties from Johnnys, also I'm planning to order from tatianas (which is pretty close to me actually). Thanks for the mail box tip Elizabeth, I never even would have thought if that...

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[troad]

Jeremy,

You might have to wait until spring but you might find New World Seeds & Tubers an excellent place for seeds in addition to the ones Carolyn noted.
New World Seeds & Tubers is near you in Everett, WA. It is Tom Wagner's business and you will find he has some very interesting tomato seeds. Some he has bred for our
PNW weather. I am trying a couple of his selections and things look promising.

Len

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by troad

Jeremy,

You might have to wait until spring but you might find New World Seeds & Tubers an excellent place for seeds in addition to the ones Carolyn noted.
New World Seeds & Tubers is near you in Everett, WA. It is Tom Wagner's business and you will find he has some very interesting tomato seeds. Some he has bred for our
PNW weather. I am trying a couple of his selections and things look promising.

Len

Len, do you know if these newer varieties are similar to the ones that several folks here bought from Tom like the Wooly Mammoth one and the Smurf one and others? I ask b'c it's clear that most of them thought they were buying genetically stable varieties which turned out not to be true. And the seeds were not cheap, actually far from it.

Some are having fun growing them out and seeing the genetic segregation and showing pictures here at Tville and elsewhere, but others don't have the room for that and I think would expect genetically stable varieties.

[troad]

Carolyn,
Just lost a long post in answer to your question. So short version:
Tom indicated many were not stable nor did he intend them to be so others could make selections. Varieties would have desired traits to varying degrees depending on each plant.
Jeremy wanted early producers. Some of Tom's selections were made specifically for our area and Jeremy lives in a city near to Tom. Some are stable such as Casady's Folly which I am growing and it looks like it will be pretty productive despite our cool weather.
As to price: worth it to me to benefit from Tom's expertise. Am betting Tom was overwhelmed by the buyers response and I note that almost all are listed as "sold out". By comparison price is high if seeds were the same as TGS, SSE etc. But these are the results of years of breeding by an expert in his field. I will be looking forward to his next offering.
Also let me say I appreciate all the work you have done in promoting and saving heirloom tomatoes. I would gladly pay for the seeds you have so generously given me.
Regards,
Len

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by troad

Carolyn,
Just lost a long post in answer to your question. So short version:
Tom indicated many were not stable nor did he intend them to be so others could make selections. Varieties would have desired traits to varying degrees depending on each plant.
Jeremy wanted early producers. Some of Tom's selections were made specifically for our area and Jeremy lives in a city near to Tom. Some are stable such as Casady's Folly which I am growing and it looks like it will be pretty productive despite our cool weather.
As to price: worth it to me to benefit from Tom's expertise. Am betting Tom was overwhelmed by the buyers response and I note that almost all are listed as "sold out". By comparison price is high if seeds were the same as TGS, SSE etc. But these are the results of years of breeding by an expert in his field. I will be looking forward to his next offering.
Also let me say I appreciate all the work you have done in promoting and saving heirloom tomatoes. I would gladly pay for the seeds you have so generously given me.
Regards,
Len

Len, when Tom's new site first went up with the list of tomato varieties he was selling there was no notice that they were not stable. That was added later as was pointed out to me.

I've known Tom for a very long time, we go back to about 1990. And when I was in Pasadena several years back he drove down from Bakersfiled, where he was at the time, and we spent quite a bit of time together talking tomatoes.

I also trialed for him back in the mid-90's 22 varieties. Casady's Folly was one of them so I know it well. He asked at that time that I not share the seeds with anyone other than Craig LeHoullier, and Craig only tried two, and for about 16 years now I have kept my word.

But many of those varieties are now available via the SSE YEarbook or even at certain seed sites , so earlier this year I PMed Tom and shared with him that b'c all that was true that a friend was going to grow out several of what I thought were the best of that growout and I would be offering seeds for them in my next free seed offer here. I had regrown the ones I liked best in about 2000 or 2001. I know that the person was not successful in waking up two of the varieties, but that's OK with me b'c neither one had tasty fruits but could be used as part of a breeding project.

He did not respond to me.

Over the years I've tried very hard to help Tom make some money from his tomato breeding by making contacts for him, but nothing worked out and I have no intention of discussing anything in detail.

So yes, I know Tom very well, yes I know of his tomato breeding, and yes, I know of his wish to make some money from his efforts and putting up his own website and selling seeds directly is the way he's chosen to do that.

My only point, as expressed above, is that quite a few folks bought some of his newest varieties when there wasn't a notice at his website about the varieties not being stable and for those who don't have the room to grow out and make selections that can pose a problem.

As to seed prices, for X number of seeds for X price, that's a decision each person has to make.

[jeremyhilton]

Originally Posted by troad

Jeremy,

You might have to wait until spring but you might find New World Seeds & Tubers an excellent place for seeds in addition to the ones Carolyn noted.
New World Seeds & Tubers is near you in Everett, WA. It is Tom Wagner's business and you will find he has some very interesting tomato seeds. Some he has bred for our
PNW weather. I am trying a couple of his selections and things look promising.

Len

Thanks Len, I actually bought a large variety pack of tubers from Tom earlier in the season and so far so good especially considering its my first time growing taters...

Unfortunately most if the interesting tomato seeds he had were sold out by the time I checked out his website but I will keep checking for next year :-)

Des Moines WA huh, how far is that from Bellingham? And what's the temps liked compared to here?

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[troad]

Carolyn,
I must have been a later visitor to Tom's site. I chose varieties I thought would work well here. If there was an oversight as to the stability it must have been corrected before I signed on. My recollection was that some seeds were purposely not stable. Anyway, water under the bridge so to speak.
Your keeping the promise not to share seeds until he approved is admirable and in keeping with the character we have all witnessed here. Too bad Tom has waited so long to jump in the sales side of the business. But better late than never. Who knows where the next Green Zebra will come from. Maybe somebody who inadvertently bought unstable seeds will come up with a prize.

[troad]

Jeremy,

Des Moines is about half way to Tacoma from Seattle. About 11/2- 2 hours to Bellingham i guess. We probably have similar temperatures. Not often warm enough to get beefsteaks to ripen every year but every so often we get a winner.
As noted by Caroline not all the seeds from New World are stable so you need to read the descriptions carefully. By all means check out all the sites she listed and you can get a lot of information on Tatiana's website. Tania sold me one named Sakharnyi Pudovichok that appears to be a monster. Lots and lots of fruit set and a very vigorous grower. Hopefully the fruit is half as good as the plant grows. Good luck with the garden and let us know how the taters did.

Len