Grow Bags, again

GaryStPaul · January 30, 2012

Hi, all. Last season I grew 5 out of 55 or so tomatoes in grow bags. I used the 12 gal white ones with handles and was fairly pleased with the result. This year I'd like to try quite a few more in the bags, but had a couple of questions for the experienced: (1) Is there any appreciable difference between the 12 and 15 gallon bags (bigger plants, better production, e.g.)? (2) Are the new dwarfs in any way better suited for grow bags than other indeterminate varieties? Appreciate any feedback on this. Many thanks. Gary

janezee · January 30, 2012

Are Ikea blue bags usable for this? Not that I love the color, but.....
the price is right. ($.35)

amideutch · January 30, 2012

5 gal growbags should be more than sufficient for Dwarfs. 12 gal bags should handle any indeterminte you put into it. The only thing with grow bags it's a little more difficult to set up a support system for the plant and will need good support if you are subject to windy conditions. Ami

GaryStPaul · January 30, 2012

Ami, I was surprised to see a recommendation for a 5 gallon bag for the dwarfs. And you wouldn't use the 15 gallon ones at all. OK, just the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks.

My solution for support last year: Drive 5 or 6 foot stakes (the metal ones with a sort of 'spade' near the bottom) on either end of the row and do a sort of modified Florida Weave. That worked pretty well.

amideutch · January 30, 2012

Quote:

Ami, I was surprised to see a recommendation for a 5 gallon bag for the dwarfs.

Don't know why. Ami

GaryStPaul · January 30, 2012

Seeing your pictures, I guess I don't know why either! Maybe because my 12 gallon grow bags seemed so, well, small. Optical illusion perhaps, but it doesn't look like you could put more than twice the amount of medium you have in those pots into a single grow bag. Anyway, thanks for the useful info, much appreciated. Gary

amideutch · January 31, 2012

Gary, it's a given that anyone growing in containers or grow bags will be supplementing the nutrient uptake of the plant with periodic applications of ferts whether they be organic or inorganic. The size of the container and watering techniques can be equated to geographical location. The climate at your location is very similar to mine and your growing season is May through September as is mine.

In the past I would normally grow 30-35 plants in containers no larger than 10 gal. I used 2ea 10 liter watering cans when applying ferts or a hose to just water and would water my plants normally once a day after work which would take about 1/2 hour. If we had abnormally hot weather 90-100 deg F. I would water twice a day but that didn't happen very often.

At the end of the season when I remove the plant from the container and inspect the rootball for overcrowding and also to see if any roots migrated out of the container through the drain holes and into the soil. What I found was for indeterminate plants in containers 5gal and up normally I had no root migration out of the container nor overcrowding of roots. Below 5gal I would see root migration and root overcrowding. For Dwarfs 2-3 gal pots are sufficient for root growth if ferts are given periodically as the same for 5gal and above for indeterminates.

The best (Non SWC) containers I have found are Smart Pots and 26quart styrofoam ice chests followed by standard plastic pots. Ami

GaryStPaul · February 1, 2012

Ami (or anyone else): I'd like to return to a point I made earlier, about the size of the bags. My surprise at your suggestion of growing in 5 gal containers, I realized, was based on the size of the supposedly 12 gal white grow bags. Today I looked at a few old paint pails I have in the garden and sure enough they say 5 gals. They're huge, certainly in comparison to the 12 gal grow bags. So it's really not an optical illusion at all, but it accounts for why I thought 5 gal containers would be less than 1/2 the size of these grow bags. (The bags I used last season came from phoenixorganics.com. They're the same as on offer at groworganic.com, the "Easi-Lift" ones). There must be something I'm not "getting" here. Can anyone shed light on it? My aim is to get the right containers for dwarfs and regular indeterminate tomato plants and, alas, I don't have much experience. Many thanks. Gary

augiedog55 · February 1, 2012

Gary. Could it be the height of the 5 gallon buckets compared to your grow bag. I just bought some 10 gallon smart pots and they don't look like thery would hold 2 5 gallon buckets of mix..They is one way to find out. Fill your 5 ball bucket with anything and pour it into your grow bags. You'll find out real quick what they grow will hold. Just a thought. Maybe you sent the wrong size grow bags

stormymater · February 1, 2012

3 years ago I bought a mess of "12 gallon" growbags. They held 4 - 1 gallon Costco milk jugs (the weird rectangular kind) & one could imagine a fifth cut in half lengthwise fitting across the top. 5 gallons not 12 gallons. My plants did awesomely in them but REQUIRED daily & sometimes TWICE daily watering through our terrible heat. At the end of the season the soil was entirely a root mass that beating would not release any soil.

Those white grow bags also became very friable over 1 growing season - they ripped badly & unpredictably when I tried to use them a second year. This year pieces of them were used to cover dripper irrigation. Doubt the nibbets left will be useful next year.

Not as good an investment for me as the black plastiC 45, 30, 15 & 7 gallon containers I get from a local nursery for $3 (for 45 & 30), $1.50 & $0.75 apiece. Though I am planning on painting the tomato ones white or whatever light color I have in the garage this spring.

simmran1 · February 2, 2012

Stormy,

There’s AeroBag, Smart Pot, DirtBag, and others, and they are similar.
I have never gotten a Smart Pot, but have some of the others.
While I like the AeroBag (with sewn on handles) from Sonoma plant works,
the best of the rest is Gardener’s Supply Co.
Not friable, no ripping, these will last for years.

I only have black, and in full south all-day sun never had a problem.
Watering is time consuming, but to me a great trade off compared to gully
washer rains that drown garden plants.
My suggestion is look for specials, coupons, free shipping, etc pick a color
and write the check to GSC.

amideutch · February 2, 2012

Gary, here is some pictures of the containers I use for size comparison.

Picture #4. 10gal Smart Pot, U.S. 5 gal pail, 5 gal trash pails.

Picture #1. U.S. 5 gal Pail, U.S. 26 Qt styrofoam Ice Chests.

Picture #2. Assorted plastic Pots up to 7 gal. Small clear plastic is 1 gal.

Picture #3. Styrofoam Ice Chests and 5-7 gal Pots.

stormymater · February 2, 2012

Wow Ami - just lookit your green green grass & wowsers o the tomato plants already! Time for me get crackin'!

chiefbeaz · February 2, 2012

Ami,I like the use of 26 qt styrofoam ice chest. Since they are not SWC type what do you put in the bottom if anything before filling with growing media? You have answered this before I am sure in Tomatoville, but I couldn't find a thread. How high up from the bottom is the drain hole ?
Jordan

amideutch · February 3, 2012

Chief, I use an apple corer and make a hole in each end 1 1/2" above the inside bottom so as to form a reservoir. Then fill with growing media and plant my seedlings after putting them in a dip solution of Actinovate and Mycorrhoiza. If you take care of them they should last you three seasons. They keep the root zone at a more stable temperature even in direct sunlite and give a better environment for the soil fungi/bacteria (Mycorrhizae) due to the insulation provided by the styrofoam.
In fact the plant in the 10 Gal Smart Pot is Cowlick's Pink Brandywine taken in 2009.

January 31, 2012	#7
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Gary, it's a given that anyone growing in containers or grow bags will be supplementing the nutrient uptake of the plant with periodic applications of ferts whether they be organic or inorganic. The size of the container and watering techniques can be equated to geographical location. The climate at your location is very similar to mine and your growing season is May through September as is mine. In the past I would normally grow 30-35 plants in containers no larger than 10 gal. I used 2ea 10 liter watering cans when applying ferts or a hose to just water and would water my plants normally once a day after work which would take about 1/2 hour. If we had abnormally hot weather 90-100 deg F. I would water twice a day but that didn't happen very often. At the end of the season when I remove the plant from the container and inspect the rootball for overcrowding and also to see if any roots migrated out of the container through the drain holes and into the soil. What I found was for indeterminate plants in containers 5gal and up normally I had no root migration out of the container nor overcrowding of roots. Below 5gal I would see root migration and root overcrowding. For Dwarfs 2-3 gal pots are sufficient for root growth if ferts are given periodically as the same for 5gal and above for indeterminates. The best (Non SWC) containers I have found are Smart Pots and 26quart styrofoam ice chests followed by standard plastic pots. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!' Last edited by amideutch; January 31, 2012 at 03:57 AM.

February 2, 2012	#11
simmran1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Iowa Zone 5 Posts: 305	Stormy, There’s AeroBag, Smart Pot, DirtBag, and others, and they are similar. I have never gotten a Smart Pot, but have some of the others. While I like the AeroBag (with sewn on handles) from Sonoma plant works, the best of the rest is Gardener’s Supply Co. Not friable, no ripping, these will last for years. I only have black, and in full south all-day sun never had a problem. Watering is time consuming, but to me a great trade off compared to gully washer rains that drown garden plants. My suggestion is look for specials, coupons, free shipping, etc pick a color and write the check to GSC. __________________ Tomatovillain

February 2, 2012	#14
chiefbeaz Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Middle, TN Posts: 271	Ami,I like the use of 26 qt styrofoam ice chest. Since they are not SWC type what do you put in the bottom if anything before filling with growing media? You have answered this before I am sure in Tomatoville, but I couldn't find a thread. How high up from the bottom is the drain hole ? Jordan Last edited by chiefbeaz; February 2, 2012 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Can't spell

February 3, 2012	#15
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Chief, I use an apple corer and make a hole in each end 1 1/2" above the inside bottom so as to form a reservoir. Then fill with growing media and plant my seedlings after putting them in a dip solution of Actinovate and Mycorrhoiza. If you take care of them they should last you three seasons. They keep the root zone at a more stable temperature even in direct sunlite and give a better environment for the soil fungi/bacteria (Mycorrhizae) due to the insulation provided by the styrofoam. In fact the plant in the 10 Gal Smart Pot is Cowlick's Pink Brandywine taken in 2009. __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

January 30, 2012	#1
GaryStPaul Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St Paul, MN Posts: 158	Grow Bags, again Hi, all. Last season I grew 5 out of 55 or so tomatoes in grow bags. I used the 12 gal white ones with handles and was fairly pleased with the result. This year I'd like to try quite a few more in the bags, but had a couple of questions for the experienced: (1) Is there any appreciable difference between the 12 and 15 gallon bags (bigger plants, better production, e.g.)? (2) Are the new dwarfs in any way better suited for grow bags than other indeterminate varieties? Appreciate any feedback on this. Many thanks. Gary

January 30, 2012	#2
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	Are Ikea blue bags usable for this? Not that I love the color, but..... the price is right. ($.35)

February 1, 2012	#8
GaryStPaul Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St Paul, MN Posts: 158	Ami (or anyone else): I'd like to return to a point I made earlier, about the size of the bags. My surprise at your suggestion of growing in 5 gal containers, I realized, was based on the size of the supposedly 12 gal white grow bags. Today I looked at a few old paint pails I have in the garden and sure enough they say 5 gals. They're huge, certainly in comparison to the 12 gal grow bags. So it's really not an optical illusion at all, but it accounts for why I thought 5 gal containers would be less than 1/2 the size of these grow bags. (The bags I used last season came from phoenixorganics.com. They're the same as on offer at groworganic.com, the "Easi-Lift" ones). There must be something I'm not "getting" here. Can anyone shed light on it? My aim is to get the right containers for dwarfs and regular indeterminate tomato plants and, alas, I don't have much experience. Many thanks. Gary

February 1, 2012	#9
augiedog55 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: oak grove mo Posts: 406	Gary. Could it be the height of the 5 gallon buckets compared to your grow bag. I just bought some 10 gallon smart pots and they don't look like thery would hold 2 5 gallon buckets of mix..They is one way to find out. Fill your 5 ball bucket with anything and pour it into your grow bags. You'll find out real quick what they grow will hold. Just a thought. Maybe you sent the wrong size grow bags

February 1, 2012	#10
stormymater Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pleasure Island, NC 8a Posts: 1,162	3 years ago I bought a mess of "12 gallon" growbags. They held 4 - 1 gallon Costco milk jugs (the weird rectangular kind) & one could imagine a fifth cut in half lengthwise fitting across the top. 5 gallons not 12 gallons. My plants did awesomely in them but REQUIRED daily & sometimes TWICE daily watering through our terrible heat. At the end of the season the soil was entirely a root mass that beating would not release any soil. Those white grow bags also became very friable over 1 growing season - they ripped badly & unpredictably when I tried to use them a second year. This year pieces of them were used to cover dripper irrigation. Doubt the nibbets left will be useful next year. Not as good an investment for me as the black plastiC 45, 30, 15 & 7 gallon containers I get from a local nursery for $3 (for 45 & 30), $1.50 & $0.75 apiece. Though I am planning on painting the tomato ones white or whatever light color I have in the garage this spring.