Black raspberries??

[Silverstar7337]

Has anyone heard of or seen these seeds? Or are they a mix of two fruits to make that flavor? I love to make jam but the only one we keep having to hit the store for is black raspberry jam!! It's so yummy!!

[Petronius_II]

Black raspberries are just another color of raspberry. Most of the wild raspberries of my Hoosier boyhood were blacks, including the ones that grew in my back yard at the edge of the woods. They tend to have a more robust flavor than the reds, and to be a bit seedier.

The problem with black raspberries is, they have almost no disease resistance. All kinds of viruses afflict the whole rose family, and many of those viruses are especially fond of raspberries. The reds, yellows, and purples, if grown in the same area, are likely to harbor viruses that they've somehow learned to get along with, and insects then spread them to their black-fruited neighbors. Which notion I hate, of course, because black raspberries are what I grew up with.

Starting raspberries from seed is pretty much a long-term commitment anyway. It would probably be four years minimum before you got enough harvest to make it worth the effort. Nursery-grown transplants are the way to go for most people who are serious about bramble fruits.

Though starting blacks from seed maybe would be a bit of extra defense against those viruses, I still wouldn't recommend it. There's also, the nursery-grown standards have been selected for better disease resistance, which you wouldn't necessarily get from some dealers' stocks. Jewell seems to be the most common black raspberry variety, but I have no idea if it's any better or not.

Some reputable nurseries include Stark's:

http://www.starkbros.com/products/be...spberry-plants

...And there's also, I called The Chile Woman in Bloomington, Indiana, in part because she lives close to the old Boy Scout camp where I used to work, and I wanted to try to find some of the wild Bloomington raspberries. She said she just doesn't monkey with them, though she does have them on her property, but recommends this nursery:

http://www.backyardberryplants.com/p...spberry_Plants

...One of these years, if I can ever get back to Indiana, I very well may drop in on the old homestead, and see if the people living there still have wild raspberries on the property, and if they'll let me take any.

EDITED TO ADD: I just looked over the Indiana guy's page again, and it sure sounds like the best black raspberry for the humid South is definitely Blackhawk.

[Tormato]

Black raspberries (Rubus occidentalis) are not the same as red raspberries (R. idaeus). Reds send out shoots from the spreading roots, blacks stay in place. Pruning requirements are very different.

I've tried Jewel. The flavor was the weakest of the several varieties I've tried. I tore out and tossed my plants.

Bristol is my favorite for known varieties. I liken it to the taste of wild black raspberries.

Tormato

[Medbury Gardens]

The Black raspberry sounds ideal for my free draining soils, ive got the pink and red in large pots because they spread so badly here.
So how is the pruning done on the blacks tormato??

[feldon30]

When I was growing up in PA, we had a creek that ran along our property. Every year I'd pick over 2 quarts of black raspberries and eat them almost in 1 sitting.

We also had wineberries which are like orange raspberries and VERY tart and sweet.

Alas neither of these do well in S.E. Texas. Even blackberries get rather tart due to the heat.

I think all of them will readily spread in the right conditions.

[Worth1]

Ive eaten wild berries from Missouri, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and all over the state of Texas.
By far the nastiest tasting berries I have ever had were from the Houston area.
The soils is black poorly drained gumbo that stays wet.

Every place else they are sweet.

Worth

[Petronius_II]

Hmmm... Well, now, if we're talking New Zealand that's a whole large-ish can of worms, i.e. bramble fruits are kind of a complicated topic.

I'd almost bet that import restrictions will mean that you're going to have to go with whatever varieties are available from NZ nurseries. There are 3 different species of black raspberry, and that includes a species native to Korea. Even within the same Eastern North American species, which is what I know from our backyard back in Indiana, you have your June-bearers and your everbearers, and best pruning practice is different for each. Stark's pruning guide for Blackhawk will give you some idea (you have to click on "Care and Maintenance" in the left column, then pruning, then scroll down to Black Raspberries

http://www.starkbros.com/growing-gui...hawk-raspberry

Please note that the Stark website has oodles of nice information for all kinds of rose family plants, including blackberry and most types of raspberries grown in the USA.

To what Stark has, I'd add that AFAIK black raspberries will tip-root easily, just like most strawberries, which can help you multiply your herd pretty quickly without much effort.

If your climate in Medbury is as similar to the American southeast as I suspect it is, then a heat-tolerant variety such as Blackhawk is definitely what you want. If you're already growing other types of raspberry, you surely know a lot about the basics. Acid or neutral soil, obviously, loose, but not so loose it doesn't retain moisture and organic matter well.

I feel like I can't stress that disease vulnerability thing enough, though for all I know the Korean blacks, for example, may not have that problem much. The general principle being, you want to do all you can to keep insects from sucking sap from your pinks and reds for breakfast and then flying over to your blacks for lunch and dinner.

I don't want to sound too off-putting here. If people can manage to grow black raspberries in parts of New Mexico, and a few do, then one can probably get them to grow just about anywhere. I'd really like to see you succeed at this, it would give me some hope.

...To which the casual observer might ask, "Well, if the reds yellows purples are easier, why not just stick with them?" To which I would answer, the flavor, the flavor, and also, the flavor. Best of any berry I've ever tasted. And that's coming from somebody who's picked organically homegrown Quinault strawberries right off his own plants, and popped them right into his mouth a second later.

[feldon30]

Whenever I get back to Houston, I will grow Quinault strawberries. I tried to be smart and grow the most popular strawberry variety in the US -- Chandler -- but it is really a Northern California/Oregon variety. It does not appreciate Houston's absurd heat. Quinault is the ticket.

Unfortunate my favorite Pick-Your-Own orchard in Houston -- King's Orchard -- was closed to make room for a PARKING LOT for the Renaissance Festival.

I'm really sad about this as picking blueberries was one of the things I was really looking forward to doing when I got back to Houston. A few years back I picked 10 lbs and put about 5 lbs up in jars. Best blueberry preserves I've ever eaten. And the fresh ones were out-of-this world.

If there is one thing I am more passionate about than tomatoes, it's berries.

[Petronius_II]

Whenever I get back to Houston, I will grow Quinault strawberries. I tried to be smart and grow the most popular strawberry variety in the US -- Chandler -- but it is really a Northern California/Oregon variety. It does not appreciate Houston's absurd heat. Chandler is the ticket

Um, didn't you mean to say "Quinault is the ticket?"

Berries not as big as I'd like, but they're everbearers, and put out lots of nice runners for repropagating. And very tasty.

And they're also very purrrrrrdy.

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by Petronius_II

Um, didn't you mean to say "Quinault is the ticket?"

Berries not as big as I'd like, but they're everbearers, and put out lots of nice runners for repropagating. And very tasty.

And they're also very purrrrrrdy.

Erm yes.

And I've been spoiled on one thing living in Denmark -- the world's best strawberries -- or at least that I've tasted so far.

I ate probably 10 lbs of Danish strawberries last year. They are smaller than the monster berries in the US, but they're red to the center, with no white wooden core. Each one just explodes in your mouth with flavor.

I have to be careful and only buy the really fragrant ones in the cardboard boxes. The ones in plastic clamshells are like Driscoll's in the US -- golf balls painted red.

[biscgolf]

Originally Posted by Tormato

I've tried Jewel. The flavor was the weakest of the several varieties I've tried. I tore out and tossed my plants.

Tormato

funny... i did the same thing. in retrospect i wish i'd planted nothing but thornless blackberries. blackberries acclimate better to this area than raspberries in general and ease of harvest from lack of thorns is huge.

the best raspberry i have grown is one they called a "champagne" raspberry- i forget the actual name of the variety. i'm sure they came from nourse.

good sources for brambles:
nourse
indiana berry and plant

[Worth1]

I would venture to say 99% of the people in the USA have no idea what a real berry of any kind is supposed to taste like.

Worth

[Tormato]

Originally Posted by Petronius_II

Hmmm... Well, now, if we're talking New Zealand that's a whole large-ish can of worms, i.e. bramble fruits are kind of a complicated topic.

I'd almost bet that import restrictions will mean that you're going to have to go with whatever varieties are available from NZ nurseries. There are 3 different species of black raspberry, and that includes a species native to Korea. Even within the same Eastern North American species, which is what I know from our backyard back in Indiana, you have your June-bearers and your everbearers, and best pruning practice is different for each. Stark's pruning guide for Blackhawk will give you some idea (you have to click on "Care and Maintenance" in the left column, then pruning, then scroll down to Black Raspberries

http://www.starkbros.com/growing-gui...hawk-raspberry

Please note that the Stark website has oodles of nice information for all kinds of rose family plants, including blackberry and most types of raspberries grown in the USA.

To what Stark has, I'd add that AFAIK black raspberries will tip-root easily, just like most strawberries, which can help you multiply your herd pretty quickly without much effort.

If your climate in Medbury is as similar to the American southeast as I suspect it is, then a heat-tolerant variety such as Blackhawk is definitely what you want. If you're already growing other types of raspberry, you surely know a lot about the basics. Acid or neutral soil, obviously, loose, but not so loose it doesn't retain moisture and organic matter well.

I feel like I can't stress that disease vulnerability thing enough, though for all I know the Korean blacks, for example, may not have that problem much. The general principle being, you want to do all you can to keep insects from sucking sap from your pinks and reds for breakfast and then flying over to your blacks for lunch and dinner.

I don't want to sound too off-putting here. If people can manage to grow black raspberries in parts of New Mexico, and a few do, then one can probably get them to grow just about anywhere. I'd really like to see you succeed at this, it would give me some hope.

...To which the casual observer might ask, "Well, if the reds yellows purples are easier, why not just stick with them?" To which I would answer, the flavor, the flavor, and also, the flavor. Best of any berry I've ever tasted. And that's coming from somebody who's picked organically homegrown Quinault strawberries right off his own plants, and popped them right into his mouth a second later.

PII,

I'm with you on the flavor of black raspberries vs the other colors. For pure candylike sweetness though, a yellow (like Fall Gold) is suberb. For me, wild low bush blueberries (Vaccinium vacillans) is the best flavored berry.

Now on strawberries, I've yet to try any known cultivar the comes anywhere close to "mock" wild ones.

Tormato