Lime Revisited

Longlake · February 27, 2012

Hi All - I'm new to container gardening and also stumbling on the lime question. The pelletized lime I picked up passed the dolomite sniff test in that it looked right (beige pellets with little odor). However, the info on the bag shows something like 33% calcium and .7% magnesium, which doesn't match what I expected. I also have an old 40 or 50 pound bag of pulverized garden lime that is basically a white powder. The info on that bag shows 22% calcium and 11% magnesium, which closely matches the dolomite numbers I've read someplace. Which lime should I use? My guess is the pulverized stuff?

Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

akgardengirl · February 27, 2012

I heard the pelletized lime doesn't break down in containers enough (in a growing season) for the plant to get any minerals. The powdered agriculture lime is the best for containers.
Sue B.

JamesL · February 27, 2012

That ratio of 33% calcium and .7 mag sounds more like ag lime than dolomitic. Ag lime having a low magnesium number vs Dolomitic.

Are you using a closed "earthtainer" style or open drainage containers?
The pelletized Dolomitic is slow release which is what you want in the enclosed containers.

Not sure if the powdered lime will overwhelm a closed system by becoming soluble all at once.

Make sure the powdered lime is dolomitic and and not hydrated. (also called burnt or slaked) Hydrated will fry your plant roots. Based on the percentages you mentioned it sounds like dolomitic.

I most recently used the Espoma version of dolomitic garden lime as it was all I could dig up over the winter.

JamesL · February 27, 2012

Meant to post this with it. The Espoma composition:
http://www.bissettnursery.com/hardgo...e-analysis.gif

fortyonenorth · February 27, 2012

Dolomite lime--by it's nature--is "slow release." Just how slow depends on the fineness of the grade. Whether or not it is pelletized won't significantly affect availability. I believe the rule of thumb is that DM will become available for plant uptake over the course of three years - 1/3 each year. This is based on a fineness of grade where at least 60% of the material passes through a #200 sieve.

One thing to be aware of: if you're looking to add, just for example, "3 cups" of dolomite lime, the amount (by weight) will vary significantly between pelletized and powdered lime - just like a tablespoon of Kosher salt and table salt are different. Use weight measurements whenever possible.

rnewste · February 27, 2012

fortyone,

May be a dumb question, but wouldn't it make sense to put either type in a bag of hammers, and beat the heck out of it before using??? This would seem to increase the surface area of each remaining particle for quicker absorption into the planting mix.

Raybo

Longlake · February 27, 2012

Thanks for all the info. I'm setting up several 24 gal earth-tainer type SWCs for this growing season and want to do it right. I'll keep my eyes open for lime pellets that have the right calcium/magnesium ratio, and will keep a print of the Espoma Guaranteed Analysis handy. Push comes to shove I guess I can always hit HD or TSC to buy the little bag of Espoma Brand.

For now, I'm tempted to just mix a reduced amount of the pulverized lime (it's NOT hydrated lime) in with the ProMix, wet it down and monitor the PH? That should tell me real quick if the powder hits with a flush that would kill my transplants later this spring.

Any other ideas, I'm all ears.

fortyonenorth · February 27, 2012

Raybo. That would work, but dolomite lime is pretty cheap, so it's probably just easier to add extra to make-up for the slow breakdown. Initially, I thought your 3 cup recommendation for the Earthtainer was "a lot" of lime. Then I considered the three year rule and it makes more sense. Have you done side-by-side comparisons with varying amounts of lime?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnewste

fortyone,

May be a dumb question, but wouldn't it make sense to put either type in a bag of hammers, and beat the heck out of it before using??? This would seem to increase the surface area of each remaining particle for quicker absorption into the planting mix.

Raybo

rnewste · February 27, 2012

fortyone,

Last year I had recommended 2 Cups Dolomite Lime in the 3 cubic feet of Combo Mix. After several reports of BER (as well as my own experience) I have now bumped up the recommendation to 3 Cups.

Keep in mind that the EarthBox instructions prescribe 2 Cups Dolomite Lime, and as the EarthTainer holds about twice as much Mix, I think my 3 Cup recommendation is still more conservative than what EarthBox recommends. My own view is that just finding the "tipping point" is where I want to end up - - and not over-dose the plants with excessive Lime. Let's see how the BER reports come in this Season.....

Raybo

fortyonenorth · February 27, 2012

Raybo - any idea how much 3 cups of dolomite weighs? I wonder if there's a chance of that being "too much" lime. I'll run some figures.

Tracydr · March 7, 2012

Raybo, I can't find lime anywhere around here, probably because our soils are very high in calcium and our water is very hard. I'd rather not order it, since I want to work on this project on the weekend.
I'm concerned that adding lime to an earthtainer, along with the naturally high calcium in our water, will cause the calcium to begin to drift up in the earthtainer mix. Is this anything to be concerned about? I've seen deposits on the outside rims of plant pots build up in very short time.
Would it be safe to to use gypsum and epsom salts instead? These ingredients are much easier for me to obtain.
I'm thinking about making one or two earthtainers next weekend to add more tomato space and to compare results to my garden tomatoes.

brismith70 · March 7, 2012

Epsoma garden lime is available at SOME local Home Dep0t stores. I recently purchase 3 3 pound bags of it. I had to look really hard to find it, though. I didn't use it in the past. I have never had BER problems. Like you say, our water has ALOT of calcium and magnesium in it already because of the aquifer from which the Phoenix area gets its potable water.

Brian

rsg2001 · March 13, 2012

I never used to add lime to containers, until I tried an Earthbox a couple of years ago. I found the difference in production almost magical. Now I get powdered dolomotic lime (unbranded) locally and it has improved the production somewhat of medium sized tomatoes.

augiedog55 · March 23, 2012

I went hd today and found epsoma 6.75 lb bag of garden dolomite lime for 5$ and bought a bag. I walked right across the street to walmart and bought Rite lime brand. Pellotized Domolitic lime for 5$ for 40 lbs.

February 27, 2012	#1
Longlake Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: MN Posts: 142	Lime Revisited Hi All - I'm new to container gardening and also stumbling on the lime question. The pelletized lime I picked up passed the dolomite sniff test in that it looked right (beige pellets with little odor). However, the info on the bag shows something like 33% calcium and .7% magnesium, which doesn't match what I expected. I also have an old 40 or 50 pound bag of pulverized garden lime that is basically a white powder. The info on that bag shows 22% calcium and 11% magnesium, which closely matches the dolomite numbers I've read someplace. Which lime should I use? My guess is the pulverized stuff? Any input is appreciated. Thanks! __________________ My garden is like a teenager - One minute I'm basking in it's glow and the next I'm cursing it's attitude and headstrong independence.

February 27, 2012	#7
Longlake Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: MN Posts: 142	Thanks for all the info. I'm setting up several 24 gal earth-tainer type SWCs for this growing season and want to do it right. I'll keep my eyes open for lime pellets that have the right calcium/magnesium ratio, and will keep a print of the Espoma Guaranteed Analysis handy. Push comes to shove I guess I can always hit HD or TSC to buy the little bag of Espoma Brand. For now, I'm tempted to just mix a reduced amount of the pulverized lime (it's NOT hydrated lime) in with the ProMix, wet it down and monitor the PH? That should tell me real quick if the powder hits with a flush that would kill my transplants later this spring. Any other ideas, I'm all ears. __________________ My garden is like a teenager - One minute I'm basking in it's glow and the next I'm cursing it's attitude and headstrong independence.

February 27, 2012	#2
akgardengirl Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Anchorage, AK zone 3/4 Posts: 1,410	I heard the pelletized lime doesn't break down in containers enough (in a growing season) for the plant to get any minerals. The powdered agriculture lime is the best for containers. Sue B.

February 27, 2012	#3
JamesL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 1,992	That ratio of 33% calcium and .7 mag sounds more like ag lime than dolomitic. Ag lime having a low magnesium number vs Dolomitic. Are you using a closed "earthtainer" style or open drainage containers? The pelletized Dolomitic is slow release which is what you want in the enclosed containers. Not sure if the powdered lime will overwhelm a closed system by becoming soluble all at once. Make sure the powdered lime is dolomitic and and not hydrated. (also called burnt or slaked) Hydrated will fry your plant roots. Based on the percentages you mentioned it sounds like dolomitic. I most recently used the Espoma version of dolomitic garden lime as it was all I could dig up over the winter.

February 27, 2012	#5
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Dolomite lime--by it's nature--is "slow release." Just how slow depends on the fineness of the grade. Whether or not it is pelletized won't significantly affect availability. I believe the rule of thumb is that DM will become available for plant uptake over the course of three years - 1/3 each year. This is based on a fineness of grade where at least 60% of the material passes through a #200 sieve. One thing to be aware of: if you're looking to add, just for example, "3 cups" of dolomite lime, the amount (by weight) will vary significantly between pelletized and powdered lime - just like a tablespoon of Kosher salt and table salt are different. Use weight measurements whenever possible.

February 27, 2012	#6
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	fortyone, May be a dumb question, but wouldn't it make sense to put either type in a bag of hammers, and beat the heck out of it before using??? This would seem to increase the surface area of each remaining particle for quicker absorption into the planting mix. Raybo

March 7, 2012	#11
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	Raybo, I can't find lime anywhere around here, probably because our soils are very high in calcium and our water is very hard. I'd rather not order it, since I want to work on this project on the weekend. I'm concerned that adding lime to an earthtainer, along with the naturally high calcium in our water, will cause the calcium to begin to drift up in the earthtainer mix. Is this anything to be concerned about? I've seen deposits on the outside rims of plant pots build up in very short time. Would it be safe to to use gypsum and epsom salts instead? These ingredients are much easier for me to obtain. I'm thinking about making one or two earthtainers next weekend to add more tomato space and to compare results to my garden tomatoes.

March 7, 2012	#12
brismith70 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 71	Epsoma garden lime is available at SOME local Home Dep0t stores. I recently purchase 3 3 pound bags of it. I had to look really hard to find it, though. I didn't use it in the past. I have never had BER problems. Like you say, our water has ALOT of calcium and magnesium in it already because of the aquifer from which the Phoenix area gets its potable water. Brian

March 13, 2012	#13
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	I never used to add lime to containers, until I tried an Earthbox a couple of years ago. I found the difference in production almost magical. Now I get powdered dolomotic lime (unbranded) locally and it has improved the production somewhat of medium sized tomatoes.

March 23, 2012	#14
augiedog55 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: oak grove mo Posts: 406	I went hd today and found epsoma 6.75 lb bag of garden dolomite lime for 5$ and bought a bag. I walked right across the street to walmart and bought Rite lime brand. Pellotized Domolitic lime for 5$ for 40 lbs.