What's wrong with our tomatoes?

vkelman · August 2, 2013

Pictures of our troubled tomatoes

We're growing tomatoes for a first time in two Earth Box http://earthbox.com/index.php/ and one Grow Box http://www.agardenpatch.com/ containers. We bought some regular hybrid tomato plants at local Home Depot. And while we got tomatoes, we also got problems - on some plants leaves and branches become dry but green on some plants, on other plants they become yellow first and then dry. You can see it on these pictures.

My wife thought there might be some fungal infection so I tried to apply Safer Brand Garden Fungicide http://goo.gl/95mA0e and Garden Safe 24-Ounce Fungicide3 Insecticide/Fungicide/Miticide http://goo.gl/ylfm9z (as well as Safer Brand Tomato and Vegetable Insect Killer http://goo.gl/Gz46yv) for several times. Could it really cause problems instead of solving them? I don't think so, I think they started to become dry before I did anything.

I also thought maybe tomato plants suck all the nutrients out of boxes. Earth Box comes with its own organic soil mix, dolomite, and fertilizers; Grow Box comes with dolomite and fertilizers, we bough Garden Soil for it at the local Home Depot. So, I searched on Amazon and bought some Maxicrop Liquid Seaweed (Kelp Extract) http://goo.gl/Gy8vBI and Azomite - Organic Trace Mineral Soil Additive Fertilizer http://goo.gl/ov9cL2. Earth Box and Garden Patch containers are not designed to easy apply additional fertilizers, I tried to put them into a water which goes to the bottom of boxes and put some Azomite on the top. Could it hurt? I don't know, but it didn't help.

Out plants probably aren't getting enough sun (we're too close to the forest which brings shadows) but I don't think it's what causing this.

I never forgot to add water, as you know it goes to the bottom of those containers first. When I opened top cover of boxes I noticed that there are a lot of roots on the surface of the ground. So, maybe there is just not enough soil in those boxes to feed two (undetermined) plants in each?

Again, tomatoes are still growing and become ripe, but more and more leaves and branches are getting dry. It's just beginning of the August, I was expecting normal life cycle of our tomatoes until at least October...

Rockporter · August 2, 2013

Welcome to TV, I grow in Earthboxes as well and you cannot grow two indeterminate tomatoes in one EB, two dwarf or patio or determinate are fine in an EB. Grow box is not one I would put even a small tomato plant unless it was a dwarf, they are just not deep enough for large tomato plants. You have to remove the damaged stems and leaves.

You say you bought garden soil but did you actually get soil or did you get a non soil peat based product? EB cannot use a true soil because the soil becomes too heavy and cannot wick the water eventually choking out the roots and or drowning them.

We have had a rough year with fungus and wilts all over the country and even into other parts of the world. It sounds like you have some wilt and fungus. Both cannot be cured once they have taken the plant but you can treat them to try to stop it from further damaging your plants.

I recommend you try out the new rave here on TV, it is called Urban Farms TX Tomato food and they have lots of product available. You can feed the plants straight down the tube with it. See the thread here,
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27229

I will be doing some changing over of all my garden containers and 4x4's to this product. Easy to use and loaded with lots of good stuff.

ginger2778 · August 2, 2013

+1
Rockporter is dead on with everything in my opinion.
Oh, and welcome to Tomatoville. You are going to learn lots here.
Marsha

SharonRossy · August 2, 2013

I also agree with all of the above, I grow in grow bags and containers and garden soil if it's soil is not good for containers. do a good clean up of the plants. How much sun are you getting?
Welcome to TV, there are lots of people who can help.

Ken4230 · August 2, 2013

Welcome to the best place for tomato growers on the web. This place is addictive, next year you will have 6 plants, 12 the year after and then you will get serious.

I also agree with Rockporter. It looks like you at least have some decent tomatoes. Just do the best that you can for the rest of the season and start over next year, after spending the winter on T'ville.
I use garden shears to clip off any leaves that even look suspicious. I usually have no leaves below 2' at the end of the season. This year, i have a few that have been clipped up to 3'.

Good luck with the rest of the year

Ken
:

ginger2778 · August 2, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken4230

Welcome to the best place for tomato growers on the web. This place is addictive, next year you will have 6 plants, 12 the year after and then you will get serious.

I also agree with Rockporter. It looks like you at least have some decent tomatoes. Just do the best that you can for the rest of the season and start over next year, after spending the winter on T'ville.
I use garden shears to clip off any leaves that even look suspicious. I usually have no leaves below 2' at the end of the season. This year, i have a few that have been clipped up to 3'.

Good luck with the rest of the year

Ken
:

Also, don't forget to wipe your clippers with Lysol wipes, or bleach solution, or alcohol between each plant, and wear disposable gloves that are changed with each plant( or at least also thoroughly wiped down), you don't want to spread disease from plant to plant.

Marsha

Ken4230 · August 2, 2013

I just remembered this. My mother once used too small a pot (10" or 12" round flower pot) for a couple of her tomatoes. I put both pot and tomatoes in a much larger pot and filled it with soil. Within a week, it was growing like normal.
You might try this just to finish out the year. Build some sides (plywood, plastic or doubled cardboard) that will sit on the inside top of your containers and fill them with soil. That will give the roots a place to grow.
I think it's worth a try. It would be interesting to see if it would work.

vkelman · August 3, 2013

Thank you, everybody.

Sure, putting garden soil into a Grow Box container was a mistake, but two plants sitting there are still alive and producing tomatoes. So are most of our other indeterminate tomato plants.

Rockporter,
Earth Box and Grow Box containers are pretty much of the same size. Thanks for a link to Urban Farms Texas Tomato Food thread. And I'm going to try 2' x 4' raised beds next year, along with existing containers. Major concern would be of how to protect them from animals and birds. Currently my containers sitting in a big shed (or whatever it's called) which I built. It is closed using hardware cloth from all sides. But it was very hard and expensive to build, I wouldn't be able to make much larger one for a couple of 2' x 4' raised beds.

Ken4230,
It's an interesting idea. I have a "gut feeling" that building up some sides on the top of my containers and adding a fresh mix (peat moss / moister control etc) it will benefit my tomato plants. I'm not sure I'll be able to use plastic covers of Earth Box container afterwards, but I can replace them with some mulch or other stuff.

List of our tomatoes 2013 with short comments

KenNashua · August 3, 2013

You might also want to try out Ray's Earthtainer solution -- they're addictive as well. You can either google for it or head over to the DIY forums.

vkelman · August 3, 2013

Yes, I saw http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/. Are they better / bigger than Earth Box container?

KenNashua · August 3, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by vkelman

Yes, I saw http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/. Are they better / bigger than Earth Box container?

Bigger, I believe so. Certainly large enough for two tomato plants.

Better? Depends. If you want something ready-made, then no. If you want something more economical and like do-it-yourself projects, then perhaps yes.

cythaenopsis · August 4, 2013

If you're using just basic garden soil, that may be the root of the whole problem. From what I understand, tomato plants are very nutrient thirsty. And if the potting medium used doesn't do a good job of providing a solid base of nutrients nor help retain nutrients that are infused with watering, the plant won't get enough. So the additives you've been providing may be washing out.

Rockporter makes some excellent points. Originally I thought the whole point of a sub irrigated container was to provide a decent sized reservoir of water for the roots to draw from as needed, once they've grown their way down into it. I later learned that it's really about providing a means of keeping the soil moist. That a wick action up into the soil is employed, fed by the reservoir, that ultimately provides a consistently moist soil condition. The roots stay in the soil where they get the needed moisture and available nutrients with it. If the potting medium doesn't have good wick action, your water reservoir may not be doing much for the plant. I'd dig into the soil and see what the moisture situation is.

In my case, my mistake was using a top soil that was premixed with fertilizer. The plants grew fine, but slowly. And in the case of my heirloom tomato plant, it has produced very little fruit. No yellowed leaves or other issues, but not much else either. The top soil does remain moist as I've also got a mulch layer over it. I've dug into it several times across the season and it hasn't gone dry but also hasn't gotten soggy. But I've learned that a potting mix (not soil) is the best medium to use and so next year I'm sticking with potting mixes.

ArthurDent004 · August 8, 2013

The good thing about the Earthtainers is they are scalable. If you have limited space you could use 14 gal Rubbermaid containers and put one large tomato or two dwarf tomatoes in each one or you could use the 31 gal containers listed in the instructions.

As for potting mix some people swear by the new Promix HP or Promix BX with some added perlite or you could make your own mix using one of the many formulas, such as Raybo's 3-2-1 mix.

If you're uncertain about what is attacking your plant you should look up your local Ag extension office. If you bring in leaf or plant samples they can take a look and tell you what they think is attacking your plant and how to combat it.

August 2, 2013	#2
Rockporter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Texas Coastal Bend Posts: 3,205	Welcome to TV, I grow in Earthboxes as well and you cannot grow two indeterminate tomatoes in one EB, two dwarf or patio or determinate are fine in an EB. Grow box is not one I would put even a small tomato plant unless it was a dwarf, they are just not deep enough for large tomato plants. You have to remove the damaged stems and leaves. You say you bought garden soil but did you actually get soil or did you get a non soil peat based product? EB cannot use a true soil because the soil becomes too heavy and cannot wick the water eventually choking out the roots and or drowning them. We have had a rough year with fungus and wilts all over the country and even into other parts of the world. It sounds like you have some wilt and fungus. Both cannot be cured once they have taken the plant but you can treat them to try to stop it from further damaging your plants. I recommend you try out the new rave here on TV, it is called Urban Farms TX Tomato food and they have lots of product available. You can feed the plants straight down the tube with it. See the thread here, http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=27229 I will be doing some changing over of all my garden containers and 4x4's to this product. Easy to use and loaded with lots of good stuff. __________________ In the spring at the end of the day you should smell like dirt ~Margaret Atwood~

August 2, 2013	#7
Ken4230 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Western Ky Posts: 282	Any port in a storm I just remembered this. My mother once used too small a pot (10" or 12" round flower pot) for a couple of her tomatoes. I put both pot and tomatoes in a much larger pot and filled it with soil. Within a week, it was growing like normal. You might try this just to finish out the year. Build some sides (plywood, plastic or doubled cardboard) that will sit on the inside top of your containers and fill them with soil. That will give the roots a place to grow. I think it's worth a try. It would be interesting to see if it would work.

August 4, 2013	#12
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	If you're using just basic garden soil, that may be the root of the whole problem. From what I understand, tomato plants are very nutrient thirsty. And if the potting medium used doesn't do a good job of providing a solid base of nutrients nor help retain nutrients that are infused with watering, the plant won't get enough. So the additives you've been providing may be washing out. Rockporter makes some excellent points. Originally I thought the whole point of a sub irrigated container was to provide a decent sized reservoir of water for the roots to draw from as needed, once they've grown their way down into it. I later learned that it's really about providing a means of keeping the soil moist. That a wick action up into the soil is employed, fed by the reservoir, that ultimately provides a consistently moist soil condition. The roots stay in the soil where they get the needed moisture and available nutrients with it. If the potting medium doesn't have good wick action, your water reservoir may not be doing much for the plant. I'd dig into the soil and see what the moisture situation is. In my case, my mistake was using a top soil that was premixed with fertilizer. The plants grew fine, but slowly. And in the case of my heirloom tomato plant, it has produced very little fruit. No yellowed leaves or other issues, but not much else either. The top soil does remain moist as I've also got a mulch layer over it. I've dug into it several times across the season and it hasn't gone dry but also hasn't gotten soggy. But I've learned that a potting mix (not soil) is the best medium to use and so next year I'm sticking with potting mixes. __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller) Last edited by cythaenopsis; August 4, 2013 at 01:42 PM.

August 2, 2013	#3
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	+1 Rockporter is dead on with everything in my opinion. Oh, and welcome to Tomatoville. You are going to learn lots here. Marsha

August 2, 2013	#4
SharonRossy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,140	I also agree with all of the above, I grow in grow bags and containers and garden soil if it's soil is not good for containers. do a good clean up of the plants. How much sun are you getting? Welcome to TV, there are lots of people who can help.

August 3, 2013	#8
vkelman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 3	Thank you, everybody. Sure, putting garden soil into a Grow Box container was a mistake, but two plants sitting there are still alive and producing tomatoes. So are most of our other indeterminate tomato plants. Rockporter, Earth Box and Grow Box containers are pretty much of the same size. Thanks for a link to Urban Farms Texas Tomato Food thread. And I'm going to try 2' x 4' raised beds next year, along with existing containers. Major concern would be of how to protect them from animals and birds. Currently my containers sitting in a big shed (or whatever it's called) which I built. It is closed using hardware cloth from all sides. But it was very hard and expensive to build, I wouldn't be able to make much larger one for a couple of 2' x 4' raised beds. Ken4230, It's an interesting idea. I have a "gut feeling" that building up some sides on the top of my containers and adding a fresh mix (peat moss / moister control etc) it will benefit my tomato plants. I'm not sure I'll be able to use plastic covers of Earth Box container afterwards, but I can replace them with some mulch or other stuff. List of our tomatoes 2013 with short comments

August 3, 2013	#9
KenNashua Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 18	You might also want to try out Ray's Earthtainer solution -- they're addictive as well. You can either google for it or head over to the DIY forums.

August 8, 2013	#13
ArthurDent004 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Cordova, TN Posts: 148	The good thing about the Earthtainers is they are scalable. If you have limited space you could use 14 gal Rubbermaid containers and put one large tomato or two dwarf tomatoes in each one or you could use the 31 gal containers listed in the instructions. As for potting mix some people swear by the new Promix HP or Promix BX with some added perlite or you could make your own mix using one of the many formulas, such as Raybo's 3-2-1 mix. If you're uncertain about what is attacking your plant you should look up your local Ag extension office. If you bring in leaf or plant samples they can take a look and tell you what they think is attacking your plant and how to combat it.