Seed Depth

ZBQ · February 24, 2007

Ok, dumb question here.

I have read about people having problems germinating seeds because they sowed them too deep.

Can they be sown too shallow?

bcday · February 24, 2007

The seeds will sprout even if they are right on the surface, as long as they are kept moist. If they dry out after they have started germinating, they die. They dry out fast if they are exposed to the open air on the surface, and very shallow sowings dry out almost as fast, so a plastic cover helps in that situation to prevent moisture loss until they sprout.

The other problem I have with shallow sowing is that sometimes the seedlings tend to be a bit wobbly, especially if the top of the root can be seen at the surface. I pile about 1/8" of seed-starting mix around the stem if that happens, to anchor it a bit more securely.

A sowing depth of 1/8" to almost 1/4" works best for me. I use the shallower depth for the smaller seeds, such as cherry tomatoes.

Tomstrees · February 24, 2007

As deep as a sharp pencil head -
Thats as deep as I go to plant my tomato seeds ~

Tom

Gimme3 · February 24, 2007

ZBQ....jus a personal opinion. Stuck seed coats on a large percentage of sprouts due to extreme shallow sewing...negates all the Good that came from providing least resistance to soil-burst. I use sterilized creeksand as a surface coating, 1/4th to 1/2 inch in thickness,...over seeds sewn on natural soil. The creeksand is easy to lift, by the radicle, yet provides good abrasion , not to mention several other features. Abrasion /resistance of the creeksand insures no stuck seedcoats (which tee me off if they are occurin often), ...it provides a Wonderful...Light -reflecting surface, and if ya do a little research on what silica gives a plant...well...it caint be but another one of them...Allgoods ( a known tribe in the South...) More i could tell ya...but in the end...you gotta find what you like.

The primary drawback to shallow seeding...is stuck seed coats..in my book.

Things to ponder...everbody has their ways...)))

bcday · February 24, 2007

I forgot about that, Gimme...the one time I decided to give very shallow seeding a try for all the seeds and not just cherries, I had more stuck seedcoats than I ever saw before (or since). I always get a few, but that was unbelievable. The little bit of extra depth does seem to hold on to the seedcoat so the little seedling can pull free of it better.

ZBQ · February 24, 2007

Thanks guys!

I would have never thought about the seedcoats being left behind in the soil as a function of friction as a result of how deep the seed was sown as well as texture of starting medium.

Gimme, do you buy this sand or where do you get it?

This is why I love this place. I learn something everytime I come here.

**nctomatoman** · February 24, 2007

I've found a good way to plant very shallow, get quick, excellent germination and have very few stuck seed coats (out of thousands of seeds). I plant on the surface of moistened MetroMix 360, then just sprinkle mix over the seeds to cover (they are therefore very shallow) - I spray the surface with water, then cover loosely with saran wrap and place them in front of a south facing window on heat mats. I get tomatoes up in 3 days, peppers and eggplant in 4 days. Once the seedlings are popping up, I remove the plastic, then mist with water at least once a day if the seed coats seem to be sticking. Once they go under lights, and it warms a bit and growth speeds up a bit, the whatever seed coats that stick pop off for the most part. I think that the misting with water regularly helps soften the coats. I get excellent results doing it this way, year after year.

**Lee** · February 25, 2007

Great to hear there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I'm gonna be trying the shallow metro mix planting with
the dwarf plants this year, so I'll report back my results.

As for Gimme's idea.... sounds quite intriguing and makes
good sense. Might have to give that a go as well.

Lee

Gimme3 · February 25, 2007

As Craig noted....continual misting will enable shedding of seedcoats. One has to simply weigh...the desire within..is it to get maximum germination, ....is it a seed of rareness , or other viabilty issues...that needs a best chance scenario, or does one value natural selection ?

I reserve special treatments...for special seeds....the rest...undergo...natural soil-burst trials. If one out of 4 dont come up, then i didnt want that seedling, anyhow.
Nature has ways...that are Pure...)))

The Beauty of growin from seeds, is to know...the struggle each cv makes, in order to live. Some fight a lot stronger...than others. Creeksand is a good filter, to be fair both to a seed, and one's endeavor.

ZBQ...u asked ..."Gimme, do you buy this sand or where do you get it? "
Z...all i do is go get a bucket of clean sand from the creek, take enough to fill a suitable pan or container, an place it on top of a wood-burnin stove, and boil it off. After it cools..its suitable for any purpose i desire.

Creeksand not only fulfills as a great filter...it seals the under-lying soil surface, reducing watering needs. When the successful seedlings sprout...they grow upon a surface that gives them maximum light reflection, is quick to dry....an heres the kicker...))) creeksand easily absorbs...Chamomile tea..in fact...one will notice..a darkening shiny effect in it, after several applications...an guess what ?......

Damping off and crud might as well pack their bags..cause there aint nothin to live on here...)))

Enjoy....and Ponder...)))

RonnyWil · February 25, 2007

Back a hundred years ago, when I was in elementary school, they taught us alot about growing things. There were a lot of farms outside of town at that time and the world's largest nursery grower. Now it's mostly expensive subdivisions. I guess they thought we'd all end up farmers. Anyway, we were taught that seeds should be planted 4 times their size deep. A 1mm seed would be planted 4mm deep. I have always used this as a guide and after all these years it has always worked.

Dr_Redwine · February 27, 2007

Ronnywil,
I think I remember reading an article revolving around the planting depths for the old planting guides circulated at Co-ops and the like. If I recall correctly, the author mentioned the old guidelines were too deep for most seeds and a good rule of thumb is to simply plant the same depth as the seed's diameter. I'll see if I can find the source.

DrR

February 24, 2007	#1
ZBQ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern Ohio Posts: 170	Seed Depth Ok, dumb question here. I have read about people having problems germinating seeds because they sowed them too deep. Can they be sown too shallow?

February 24, 2007	#3
Tomstrees Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NJ Bayshore Posts: 3,848	As deep as a sharp pencil head - Thats as deep as I go to plant my tomato seeds ~ Tom __________________ My green thumb came only as a result of the mistakes I made while learning to see things from the plant's point of view. ~ H. Fred Ale

February 24, 2007	#4
Gimme3 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northeast Georgia, USA Posts: 348	ZBQ....jus a personal opinion. Stuck seed coats on a large percentage of sprouts due to extreme shallow sewing...negates all the Good that came from providing least resistance to soil-burst. I use sterilized creeksand as a surface coating, 1/4th to 1/2 inch in thickness,...over seeds sewn on natural soil. The creeksand is easy to lift, by the radicle, yet provides good abrasion , not to mention several other features. Abrasion /resistance of the creeksand insures no stuck seedcoats (which tee me off if they are occurin often), ...it provides a Wonderful...Light -reflecting surface, and if ya do a little research on what silica gives a plant...well...it caint be but another one of them...Allgoods ( a known tribe in the South...) More i could tell ya...but in the end...you gotta find what you like. The primary drawback to shallow seeding...is stuck seed coats..in my book. Things to ponder...everbody has their ways...))) __________________ ....Can you tell a green Field.....from a cold steel rail ? Roger Waters, David Gilmour

February 24, 2007	#7
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	I've found a good way to plant very shallow, get quick, excellent germination and have very few stuck seed coats (out of thousands of seeds). I plant on the surface of moistened MetroMix 360, then just sprinkle mix over the seeds to cover (they are therefore very shallow) - I spray the surface with water, then cover loosely with saran wrap and place them in front of a south facing window on heat mats. I get tomatoes up in 3 days, peppers and eggplant in 4 days. Once the seedlings are popping up, I remove the plastic, then mist with water at least once a day if the seed coats seem to be sticking. Once they go under lights, and it warms a bit and growth speeds up a bit, the whatever seed coats that stick pop off for the most part. I think that the misting with water regularly helps soften the coats. I get excellent results doing it this way, year after year. __________________ Craig

February 25, 2007	#8
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	Great to hear there's more than one way to skin a cat. I'm gonna be trying the shallow metro mix planting with the dwarf plants this year, so I'll report back my results. As for Gimme's idea.... sounds quite intriguing and makes good sense. Might have to give that a go as well. Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

February 24, 2007	#2
bcday Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY z5 Posts: 1,205	The seeds will sprout even if they are right on the surface, as long as they are kept moist. If they dry out after they have started germinating, they die. They dry out fast if they are exposed to the open air on the surface, and very shallow sowings dry out almost as fast, so a plastic cover helps in that situation to prevent moisture loss until they sprout. The other problem I have with shallow sowing is that sometimes the seedlings tend to be a bit wobbly, especially if the top of the root can be seen at the surface. I pile about 1/8" of seed-starting mix around the stem if that happens, to anchor it a bit more securely. A sowing depth of 1/8" to almost 1/4" works best for me. I use the shallower depth for the smaller seeds, such as cherry tomatoes.

February 24, 2007	#6
ZBQ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern Ohio Posts: 170	Thanks guys! I would have never thought about the seedcoats being left behind in the soil as a function of friction as a result of how deep the seed was sown as well as texture of starting medium. Gimme, do you buy this sand or where do you get it? This is why I love this place. I learn something everytime I come here.

February 25, 2007	#10
RonnyWil Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Collierville TN Posts: 106	Back a hundred years ago, when I was in elementary school, they taught us alot about growing things. There were a lot of farms outside of town at that time and the world's largest nursery grower. Now it's mostly expensive subdivisions. I guess they thought we'd all end up farmers. Anyway, we were taught that seeds should be planted 4 times their size deep. A 1mm seed would be planted 4mm deep. I have always used this as a guide and after all these years it has always worked.

February 27, 2007	#11
Dr_Redwine Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pike Road, AL Posts: 111	Seed Depth Ronnywil, I think I remember reading an article revolving around the planting depths for the old planting guides circulated at Co-ops and the like. If I recall correctly, the author mentioned the old guidelines were too deep for most seeds and a good rule of thumb is to simply plant the same depth as the seed's diameter. I'll see if I can find the source. DrR __________________ I started out with nothin' and still have most of it.