Transplanting or Direct Sowing

[agee12]

I did not do indoor sowing for my warm weather crops like tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, eggplants, flowers, etc. I just did not have the right conditions and equipment and was actually able to keep myself busy and got my gardening fix with cool weather crops. So now we are approaching the last frost date in my area, the days are lengthening and it is getting warmer, although we are presently going through a freaky cold snap.

So how should I plant my warm weather vegetables? Should I do the seed starting method and plant them in cups or cells and then transplant or should I "direct sow" in the container.

My main question is will they get to maturity faster if I direct sow? If they won't then I probably prefer to do seed starting in cups and cells and then transplanting. But if they will get to maturity significantly faster then that will trump my preference to do seed starting.

I am pretty sure that if I do direct sowing that there are other considerations like protecting the seedlings from pests and dealing with adverse weather and I have questions about that but I will hold off discussing that aspect until I figure out which approach to go with. Of course I can do both and see what happens but I still want to find out more about direct sowing in containers if such a thing exists. There is plenty of info about seed starting, although I have questions about doing it at this point in the planting calendar, particularly about indoor time versus outdoor time.

I live in Georgia and my USDA Hardiness Zone is 8a.

[PaulF]

Even way up here in the semi-frozen north there are crops that get direct sown. For me, cucumbers and melons all get seeds directly planted. Likewise green beans and sweet corn, mostly because they do not transplant well. Those all catch up anyway. As it is the only early starters are tomatoes and peppers. If I did cauliflower and broccoli, they also would be early started.

At this point in your growing season it is most likely too late to start indoors, you may as well direct sow or purchase plants.

[sdambr]

you should look into winter sowing method, works well for starting seeds outdoors and there is still a bit of time left this year.

[MissS]

I really do not think that it matters all that much if you start them in cups or in pots. I have volunteers that start much later than those that I start indoors and they catch up and often surpass their coddled siblings of the same variety. The only supposed difference is in that the long tap root of tomatoes that are direct seeded are curtailed and made to spread out more if they are started in small pots. This might be of importance if you had your plants growing in a bed, but yours are in containers so their roots are controlled by the situation that they are growing in.

I would try both and see what you think. It sounds like a fun experiment.

[dmforcier]

Starting in small pots or cells makes it a lot easier to handle the seedlings. Also lets you pack them to apply the auxiliary boosts like artificial lights or warm rooms.

Just in terms of convenience it's a no-brainer. But if you're not using auxiliary boosts, there won't be a practical difference in how the plants grow.

[carolyn137]

I think very useful to read this link,just scroll down until you come to tomatoes'


http://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/...010137toc.html

Yes, from 1927 when the basic traits of tomato growth were studied.

Carolyn

[jtjmartin]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I think very useful to read this link,just scroll down until you come to tomatoes'


http://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/...010137toc.html

Yes, from 1927 when the basic traits of tomato growth were studied.

Carolyn

Great read. Looks like the more you transplant, the lower the yield. May have to rethink my regimen. I usually increase pot size 2 or 3 times before planting out.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jtjmartin

Great read. Looks like the more you transplant, the lower the yield. May have to rethink my regimen. I usually increase pot size 2 or 3 times before planting out.

It's the difference between a fibrous root system and a tap root system,the former being desired.

I never potted up sequentially, just transplanted the seeds directly to 6 pak plastic and let them grow up to maybe 4-6 inches and planted them and yes originally outside in a field but where I am now into containers.

Carolyn

[dmforcier]

The article cited (very good, thanks) seems to be analyzing a commercial operation. (A similar article I saw earlier definitely was.) Commercial operations don't have the time to be particularly careful when transplanting.

But I do. A transplant - particularly from a starter cell - is practically a surgical operation here. As far as I can tell, roots are rarely if ever damaged (other than the cramping inherent in containerization). Later transplants are even more protective of roots, moving the entire padding root ball. The article clearly states that because roots are damaged at every transplant the lifetime yield of the plant decreases with the number of transplants. Reasonable, but remove the precondition, you remove the effect (or so it seems to me).

In fact, as I read it, the article is suggesting that the grower intentionally damage the root system to change its nature. But wouldn't that have the net effect of lowering lifetime yield?

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I think very useful to read this link,just scroll down until you come to tomatoes'


http://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/...010137toc.html

Yes, from 1927 when the basic traits of tomato growth were studied.

Carolyn

My seedlings are in solo cups. At what stage should I transplant to raised bed. Is there a certain age or is it mainly heighth? Also how much moisture should be in transplant and do you water with anything special to prevent shock. Last year I planted the seeds directly into the containers. . Jimbo

[dmforcier]

Depends on how deep the containers are. I would want to transplant before the roots become too bound, and the deeper the soil in the cup the longer the plant can go before getting there.

In order to keep the root ball coherent, I make sure it is nice and moist before moving it. then water in pretty well. If you are careful there should be very little shock from the transplant itself. Thing is, people put the new pot in different surrounding conditions, e.g. sun instead of artificial light, or outside to wind, and this can cause a modicum of shock.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

The article cited (very good, thanks) seems to be analyzing a commercial operation. (A similar article I saw earlier definitely was.) Commercial operations don't have the time to be particularly careful when transplanting.

But I do. A transplant - particularly from a starter cell - is practically a surgical operation here. As far as I can tell, roots are rarely if ever damaged (other than the cramping inherent in containerization). Later transplants are even more protective of roots, moving the entire padding root ball. The article clearly states that because roots are damaged at every transplant the lifetime yield of the plant decreases with the number of transplants. Reasonable, but remove the precondition, you remove the effect (or so it seems to me).

In fact, as I read it, the article is suggesting that the grower intentionally damage the root system to change its nature. But wouldn't that have the net effect of lowering lifetime yield?

No, not a commercial operation,look at the authors, both were from the U of Nebraska,I think,and both listed their titles,which back then would put them in the Dept of Plant Biology.

(A transplant - particularly from a starter cell - is practically a surgical operation here. As far as I can tell, roots are rarely if ever damaged (other than the cramping inherent in containerization). Later transplants are even more protective of roots, moving the entire padding root ball. The article clearly states that because roots are damaged at every transplant the lifetime yield of the plant decreases with the number of transplants. Reasonable, but remove the precondition, you remove the effect (or so it seems to me))

Thats not the way that I or others have read it,the difference being between a tap root structure if seeds are directly sown or a fibrous structure if transplanted just once.

Carolyn








Carolyn

[AlittleSalt]

agee12, this is the thread I was looking at when TV crashed. I had written a reply and it wouldn't post.

I am also in zone 8A. I have noticed that volunteer tomato plants don't come up until the soil temperature is warm enough. Those volunteer tomato plants quickly catch up to the ones I start inside in January. (I'm pretty sure most will agree with that.) If you notice volunteers starting - I would imagine you could start seeds directly at the same time. Or you can put a soil thermometer in the ground. I notice tomato germination at around 70 degrees both in starter cells and volunteers.

Direct seeded volunteers grow a deeper tap root. Seeds planted in something like the 2" transplant cups or party cups can be moved to safety in case of a bad storm or cold. Here's a link that might help - http://homeguides.sfgate.com/big-tom...get-56153.html