Just can't figure this out - help needed!

[elight]

I think I'll give it a shot. I like the idea of two plantings, even if over wintering. That way, if there is a first scare in January or early February, the later plants may still be small enough to bring inside for a night.

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[seaeagle]

Here is a study that concludes TYLCV is not transmitted by seeds of tomatoes. I guess Fred is right, more research needed.

http://www.plantprotection.pl/PDF/47...06_Kashina.pdf

Seed transmission
Seeds were extracted from tomato fruits obtained from field- and graft-infected
tomatoes by blending the fruits in distilled water and separating them from the debris through several steps of washing with distilled water. The seeds were sown in
5 plastic pots of 30 cm in diameter (10 seeds per pot), and maintained in the screen
-
house.


Seed transmission
Typical TYLCV symptoms were not observed on any of the tomato seedlings
grown from seeds of infected plants, and no symptoms developed on indicator plants
following back-indexing.

[elight]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

If you haven't had a frost in years then I think your late fall plant out is OK. We haven't had a frost here since 2010, and before that it was literally every year. It is getting warmer. We used to be zone 10a now 10b, and parts just got changed to zone 11, so I think you should go for it, definitely plant out in December. Why not try sowing seeds in early September next year, for a late October plant out, that's what I do, and just have one long season until about late April, but I start a few more seeds around December 1 to stretch the season until June. I think March in any part of peninsular Florida is really too hot already to get much accomplished.

I went ahead and looked up all of the extreme minimum annual temperatures from the Wunderground weather station to me for the past 10 years:

2017 - 37
2016 - 33
2015 - 33
2014 - 33
2013 - 33
2012 - 33
2011 - 35
2010 - 35
2009 - 32
2008 - 32

I wouldn't say that's enough change or enough years for a trend, but I give it more stock than the USDA's number which takes into account 40 years of data. I think we all know that things aren't exactly the same as they were in 1976. So this new data shows an average annual extreme minimum temperature of 33.6, putting me squarely in Zone 10a, whereas the USDA still has me in 9b (recently upgraded from 9a).

Also, I'll report that there are two plants unaffected - PBTD (seeds from Tatiana) and a store-bought Lemon Boy (post-hurricane replacement).

Is it safe to re-use container media from these plants, or should it be discarded? I would normally discard anyway after a season, but in this case the potting mix has barely been used.

[creeker]

Originally Posted by elight

Loving all of the conversation on this topic. I was not previously aware of this virus, and back in the spring when I posted for help on what was probably the same condition, we all accepted that it was probably just herbicide damage. Glad that there now is more recognition of this and that there seems to be a lot of work going into understanding it.

So, a few follow-up questions:

1. Is there anything that can be done as a preventative? Will spraying with Neem help to control the whiteflies? I've used Neem before, but usually only after noticing a whitefly problem.

2. I have used the yellow sticky traps for quite a while now, but I don't know how effective they've been. I always still have whitefly problems. Even on the plants inside my pool screen enclosure. Peppers seem affected the worst, to the point where I stopped growing them.

3. I believe my citrus trees have contributed to my whitefly problems. I used to have some plants next to one, and they were horribly infected with whiteflies. Since all three of my trees are suffering from citrus greening, I am having them removed tomorrow, actually.

4. If whiteflies thrive in warmer weather, maybe a later fall plant-out date would be helpful. Here in central Florida, I'm wondering if we're close to getting to the point of having one longer over-winter growing season like south Florida. In my four winters here, we've never once had a real freeze, and only gotten close 2-3 times. Last winter, I could have easily over-wintered if I had prepared for it (i.e., not given up on the mature plants to focus on new seedlings in January). In fact, I'm wondering if I should start new seeds right now and plant them out around December 1 rather than waiting until March 1.

I will continue to monitor the PBTD plant that has not shown any signs yet. Fingers crossed.

Re the first question: I have been using Bill's DE-permethrin-spap spray for a couple of years with mixed results. I really think it helps as a preventative if used early enough and regularly. It seems to me that spraying a newly sick plant sometimes helps it survive to be productive. Also PL plants seem to be more hardy and resistant. I have tried some advertised TYLCV resistant varieties. True, they didn't get the disease but produced fruit that resembled grocery store tomatoes and to me were completely inedible.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by elight

I went ahead and looked up all of the extreme minimum annual temperatures from the Wunderground weather station to me for the past 10 years:

2017 - 37
2016 - 33
2015 - 33
2014 - 33
2013 - 33
2012 - 33
2011 - 35
2010 - 35
2009 - 32
2008 - 32

I wouldn't say that's enough change or enough years for a trend, but I give it more stock than the USDA's number which takes into account 40 years of data. I think we all know that things aren't exactly the same as they were in 1976. So this new data shows an average annual extreme minimum temperature of 33.6, putting me squarely in Zone 10a, whereas the USDA still has me in 9b (recently upgraded from 9a).

Also, I'll report that there are two plants unaffected - PBTD (seeds from Tatiana) and a store-bought Lemon Boy (post-hurricane replacement).

Is it safe to re-use container media from these plants, or should it be discarded? I would normally discard anyway after a season, but in this case the potting mix has barely been used.

I have been growing Berkley Tie Dye Pink and saving seed from them for many years and this year I have several plants out in the garden and all are infected so I wouldn't count on it being resistant. I have never experienced this disease until this season and it only showed late in the season.

As to it getting warmer I am not so sure about that. Last winter was one of the mildest I have ever experienced but I can also remember having a couple of other winters that were about that warm years ago. We also had an extremely hot and dry summer and fall last year leading into what turned out to be not much of a winter. But the winters three and four years ago were extremely cold and killed a lot of satsuma trees around here which had not happened in many years. This past summer was hot but not as hot as usual. After over 40 years of gardening here I am only sure of one thing when it comes to the weather and that is that it is very changeable and unpredictable. When we were in that very long drought spell years ago I could almost always set out my first tomato plants every spring in late February or the first week of March; but lately I have had to wait til at least the second week of March and sometimes as late as April. Since I no longer get out in the swamps fishing due to my health I no longer am able to spot the surest sign I know of to predict the kind of winter coming. I had heard that hornets nests location would tell you a great deal about the winter coming up. If the nest was low to the ground then the winter would be warm and dryer than normal or both. If the nest was way up in the tops of trees then look for a cold and or wet winter. I used to see them out fishing every summer and they seemed pretty reliable so I would start seed accordingly and it was a great help. I wish I knew where the local hornets nests were located now. Of course it could just be some country lore that stuck with me but it sure did seem to be a good predictor for many years in my experience.

Bill

[b54red]

Originally Posted by creeker

Re the first question: I have been using Bill's DE-permethrin-spap spray for a couple of years with mixed results. I really think it helps as a preventative if used early enough and regularly. It seems to me that spraying a newly sick plant sometimes helps it survive to be productive. Also PL plants seem to be more hardy and resistant. I have tried some advertised TYLCV resistant varieties. True, they didn't get the disease but produced fruit that resembled grocery store tomatoes and to me were completely inedible.

I don't think the DE works as well on whiteflies as it does on mites and other pests. It does seem to slow them down but this year they were on everything surrounding my garden so killing the ones on my garden plants was only a short term solution and I just couldn't get out and spray often enough to keep them away. I did notice that when I got a really good thick film of DE on the undersides of the leaves that the whiteflies tended to avoid those leaves more than the ones with little or no DE sticking to the undersides of the leaves. I probably should have gotten a mosquito fogger to use on the area surrounding my garden to thin out the whiteflies on shrubs, bushes, flowers and weeds and that might have helped keep them away.

Bill

[creeker]

So my best solution in my garden may be a combination of spraying and resistant plants. I believe the only OP varieties in my garden this year that seemed totally unaffected by the virus were Lees Sweet and Solar Flare and possibly Rebel Yell. Small numbers were used but are worth another try.

[b54red]

I have now pulled all but about a dozen of my remaining tomato plants. I removed all that didn't have a decent tomato on them and by decent I mean larger than a quarter. Boy this disease sure lowered my standard of decent tomato.

I did have a very few infected plants that actually bloomed and set a few new fruits. They were mostly ISPL, IS, and Spudakee. I haven't picked or seen a tomato over 4 oz since the first week of October.

I hope we have a good cold winter and it kills back the whiteflies so I'm not dealing with them again next year. If they are back again next year I don't think I will attempt a fall crop after my experience this year. It is just too much work for too little results.

My focus now is on greens and other winter crops. I have my first little batch of carrots already an inch tall and will plant another little batch of them this month or next. I have a terrific stand of greens including mustard, turnips and rutabagas. Hopefully I will get some Brussels sprouts set out in the next week or so to go with the broccoli, cabbage and cauliflower that was set out two weeks ago.

Bill