Using cell packs to germinate!

[habitat_gardener]

Originally Posted by RinTinTin

If you read past the opening paragraphs, you will see that the conclusion is that transplanting actually harms the plants and production:...

That would explain why volunteers are so vigorous and productive. Usually I pull volunteers because I haven't found them to be worth keeping, but this year one got to 2-3 ft. before I noticed it (busy yesr! and it was camouflaged by pots of peppers), so i let it be and it turned out to be a black cherry. The only tomato I grew in that part of the garden last year was Kosovo; the last time I grew Black Cherry nearby was 2005! Now I just grow herbs and flowers in that bed, so I haven't even been adding compost. Anyway, in the past couple weeks it's been my most productive tomato. I picked 2 pints one day last week, vs. 2 pints of all other surviving tomatoes (about 10 plants, half of which are still doing pretty well). The volunteer is happily growing up the hollyhock stems, smothering the oregano, and even growing into the lavender. The birds like it, too. It started producing fairly late, but it'll be interesting to compare its total production to other varieties and other years.

Originally Posted by RinTinTin

If you read past the opening paragraphs, you will see that the conclusion is that transplanting actually harms the plants and production:

Since the root system is disturbed and the development of the plant more or less checked at each transplanting,
it might be concluded that plants grown from seed sown directly in pots or other containers would grow more
vigorously and give a higher yield than those once or twice transplanted.
In fact this has been shown by numerous investigations to be the case.
That transplanting in itself does not promote an early crop nor an increased yield has been also clearly demonstrated.

In an experiment in Wisconsin three crops of tomatoes were grown . . .

In each case seeds were planted singly in 6-inch pots in the greenhouse;
when the plants were about 2 inches in height, two-thirds of the whole number were dug up and reset in the same pots;
later, one-half of these were again transplanted in a similar manner.
As soon as weather permitted, 10 plants of each lot were knocked from the pots and set 4 by 8 feet apart in open ground,
every precaution being taken to avoid injury to the roots.

Those not transplanted yielded more than those once transplanted, while those twice transplanted yielded least.
The total for 10 plants with each treatment during a 3-year period was, 1,175, 1,131, and 1,001 pounds, respectively.

According to the information from the study, it seems the conclusion is that the only gain from growing in a container and then transplanting to the soil when weather permits is a larger plant earlier in the growing season. I read it to say or imply a single transplant or up pot from container to soil is preferable to multiple up pots and direct soil planting may be most preferable. I have a short period between normal last frost and the onset of high heat. I try to plant out seedlings as soon as possible after last frost to take advantage of the that short time frame for blooming and fruit set. If I had cooler summers, it might be to my advantage to direct sow my seed and take advantage of the longer tap root.

Ted

[RinTinTin]

Almost all of us benefit by starting early indoors. Since their experiment merely removed the plants, and replaced them in the same pots, it seems to point towards root damage as the cause of ultimate lower yields.

I have direct seeded into soil (Southern Calif) with very good results. In a less perfect climate, pre-planting in pots/trays gives the plants a nice head start while the plot is being prepared, and soil + air warms up. Here in the PNW, even early varieties need to be started early if you want fruit. Our summers are just too short and mild. Try peppers here..haah!

[carolyn137]

I've been linking to that Root Structure article at every message site that I've ever been associated with in the past and I do find it interesting that interpretation of what's written and shown in the diagrams is often interpreted quite diffrerently by folks who read it.

But that doesn't surprise me.

[RinTinTin]

My post was a direct quote from the article. It seems to conflict with what was stated earlier on within the article.

[Stepheninky]

I bought my bonny best plants last year and I am assuming that someone messed up at the nursery. Heres what happened, went to the box store and one flat out of hundreds of six packs was marked the same price as the 6 packs except they were not six packs they were bare rooted plants wrapped in brown paper. there was about 30 plants in the bundle, I say bare rooted as there was no soil just a clear gel inside the paper. These looked like clones to be honest you could see the cut off end and then all the roots.

So what I am thinking is that some nurseries might just be using clones to make their six packs. It would make sense from a cost prospective as it would take less over all space and if they grew the parent plants in green houses then they could produce the six packs much faster.

I have a couple of cuttings I did and I used a clear pot and you can see thick well developed root system and the plants growth rate seems faster than the seedlings I have started.

That would possibly explain the root systems you are seeing in the cell flats

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I've been linking to that Root Structure article at every message site that I've ever been associated with in the past and I do find it interesting that interpretation of what's written and shown in the diagrams is often interpreted quite diffrerently by folks who read it.

But that doesn't surprise me.

Carolyn, I respect your thoughts about growing tomatoes more than anyone else. You have more experience and knowledge than anyone else I know. What are we misinterpreting?

Ted

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tedln

Carolyn, I respect your thoughts about growing tomatoes more than anyone else. You have more experience and knowledge than anyone else I know. What are we misinterpreting?

Ted

TEd, it's not a matter of misinterpreting, it's a matter of different folks interpreting what's in that articles differently.

Note that Rin TIn TIn posted the following:

(My post was a direct quote from the article. It seems to conflict with what was stated earlier on within the article.)

As I and some others interpret it it's necessary to damage the young roots of seedlings in order to convert the root structure from the tap root struture shown in the article to the fibrous root struture also shown and that's accomplished by transplanting very young seedlings. And fibrous root structure should be preferred with tomatoes since with more root surface structure the better will be the uptake of water and O2 and nutrients.

There are those large scale commercial farmers, especially in CA, who do direct seed their tomatoes in the field but then they irruigate them, so not a water problem, and they throw lots and lots of fertilizer at them as well.

So again, not a matter of misinterpretation, rather, differing interpretations as I see it.

[RinTinTin]

Since much of California's rich farmlands are in arid/semi arid regions, perhaps those growers want the deeper tap root to get to the deeper water left in the soil from the wetter winter months.

As many of you know, California has had severe water shortages for many years (L.A. is @ the edge of a desert), and water rationing has been common for decades. Last year, even big AG was even being rationed and monitored.

Deeper roots survive drought conditions better than shallow roots.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by RinTinTin

Since much of California's rich farmlands are in arid/semi arid regions, perhaps those growers want the deeper tap root to get to the deeper water left in the soil from the wetter winter months.

As many of you know, California has had severe water shortages for many years (L.A. is @ the edge of a desert), and water rationing has been common for decades. Last year, even big AG was even being rationed and monitored.

Deeper roots survive drought conditions better than shallow roots.

RTT

When I was in LA for a tomato talk all I heard about was dry farming tomatoes, especially Early Girl, but I didn't know that water restrictions these days extended to commercial farmers as well.

Yes, tap roots can seek out water but back when irrigation of commercial crops done by large scale farmers was prevalent, that's not why they direct seeded. They did so b'c it saves one heck of a lot of labor, time and space raising seedlings to put out, etc.