seed germination. - Page 2

Hotwired · December 5, 2012

Augie... I just went back & read the original thread and noticed "When the seedlings got their first true leave i potted them up to 12 0z clear plastic cups". I used to do this too, until I started having trouble with the soil turning green. The sunlight will produce significant algae growth. I use solid color cups now.

Hotwired NY 5b

augiedog55 · December 5, 2012

hotwired I noticed the same thing. Thanks for the tip. Linda, patience isn't my strong suit,but I'll try

kilroyscarnival · December 14, 2012

Ah, that's why I saw green algae in the one clear cup I used!

Augie, I hope you've had some success in the past week? Any new seedlings?

I had great germination, following the advice posted in the Effective Germination thread in this forum, with a few alterations. I didn't use sterile soilless mix. I used pure coconut coir for half of them, and a 50/50 mix of purchased organic garden soil (Just Natural brand) and coir in the other. I later learned that coir was fine for germination but it has no nutrients. The other thing I did was an idea I got from a YouTube video, and started the seed with about an inch of soil or so in the bottom of the cup, and a dusting of soil over the seed. As the seedling sprung up fast (I think four or five days), I would add more soil mix, as dry and crumbly as possible which made it easy to sprinkle like sand through the fingers, gently around the seedling then gently moistening it. The idea was that this would establish roots going way up the plant from the beginning. I think maybe either way, the roots would have been prolific, but so far I've only done it that way. I made sure the soil mix I added to the coir-only starts was a little richer. Wouldn't do that again. I will also use white foam cups (rather, re-use the ones I have with holes in the bottom) because the clear plastic made the soil and roots pretty hot in early October in Florida.

I had great germination, of 32 in my original effort, only 2 didn't germinate at all, and 2-3 got damaged while babies and didn't make it, which was how I got too many cherry plants at one time. I planted fewer of the second batch of seeds I ordered, thinking by then I had probably lost my mind to do more. But now that I've given enough seedlings away I want to start two more Lollipops and two more Jaune Flamme, and maybe a few more of the paste varieties, for planting out after freezing temps are a possibility.

augiedog55 · December 15, 2012

Kilroy. Good news and bad news.
I'll start with the good news. I did get a cup with some Aussie seeds to germinate. I'm guessing 100%. They are three inches tall right now and getting their first true leave. I'm going to pot them up 3 of the 10 next week to keep practicing on. This is great winter time fun.
Now the bad news. For fun last week I took 6 different varities from 2 different vendors to see if I counld get them to sprout in paper towel on a heat mat. I dampened the towel and put 4 seeds from each pack in them and rolled them up and put them in a ziplock . I then I placed all of them on a heat pad. After 6 days I got -0- seeds to sprout. I can't figure that one out at all... The 2 things i could think of is #1 the heat pad is to hot??? Its a hydrofoam 10x20.Its had no heat regulator on it. Its says it can heat up to 20degrees above ambient temp.. Second in both sets of seeds from 2 different vendors were mailed in august when it was HOT. Some days it was 105degrees + here. Could all the seeds have been killed in transportation via the mail because of heat?
Today is a new day. I'm going to try and start some seeds from a different vendor in a cup and put them on the heat pad. I'm trying to find out whats up. The cup is big enough i'll try 3 differennt varities.

Any thoughts or input on possible problems would be appreciated
thanks
Bruce

dice · December 16, 2012

When I start seeds in dampened coffee filters in plastic bags,
I set them a couple of feet from a furnace vent, up a few feet
in the air on a box or chair or whatever, and I leave the bags
open after the first 24 hours. Seems to work. Germination can
take a few weeks on some reluctant varieties (old seeds, etc),
but usually I see roots poking through the seed coats within a week.

(It took three tries in successive years with Guido, but I did finally
get one to sprout and grow.)

greyghost · December 16, 2012

Augie,
I use hydro. germination mats quite often. When I first started using them,
I had poor or no germination on one or two tries. One was in soil (inserts
for 1020 size trays), the other was a pregermation of seeds. Using a thermometer, I found the mats were overheating plastic bags laying
directly on them as well as trays that were covered. I'm not sure all the
hydrofarm mats would do this but I watch carefully for overheating now,
especially for tomatoes. Tomatoes do well without a mat but it's sometimes
more convenient for me to use them. They're really a big help with peppers though. Darlene

augiedog55 · December 16, 2012

Darlene, Thank you for your response. So do you think it would be better to put a tea shirt or some other cloth over the mat to keep the heat down a bit? I went to the store the other day to get a themometer to get a reading on the temp of the soil. All they had was therm, for taking temps.on people. They didn't go as low (temp) as I needed them to go. Where can I get a therm. that will work on soil?
Ps .today I did pot up a couple plants from the Aussies that came up a couple weeks ago.

greyghost · December 16, 2012

Augie, what I've been using is a stem or dial thermometer-I think they
come in all ranges. I think my husband got these years ago to get pool temperatures. I did a quick look on google-saw a place called grainger
that seemed to have a lot. I think I've seen soil thermometers in some
garden catalogs. Forgot to seach on google for that. When I got my
tumbling type composters, they came with a very long stemmed dial
thermometer. The ones I use have stems about 14" long-I'm very conscious
of not setting them place down on a counter with the stem up so that
they could poke out an eye!

To keep temps down for my tomatoes, I usually don't cover them, also use
some of the deeper cell packs or plastic seedlings trays and I've used
something similar to a placemat. There have been a couple of times when
I have covered trays but made sure the cover was well vented-maybe keeping
it elevated with plant labels. Darlene

greyghost · December 16, 2012

Augie do a google search for soil thermometers--lots of them. I saw them
listed at all my favorite seed places, Harris seeds, Johnny's, Parks (yes, I
like Parks), even at Walmart. Some of digital-just make sure it goes over 100
degrees f (saw one that ended at 90). Price seemed to be $10 to 20, some
much higher. Darlene

augiedog55 · December 16, 2012

darlene, thanks for your help. i just called my local nurcery and they have one for 10$. Thats sounds pretty cheap to me. if i order anything on line and the shipping eats up any savings.

augiedog55 · December 16, 2012

Well I bought a therm. today. I put it in the container with my seeds on my heat mat.. 95 degrees. Now I know why I wasn't getting germination.. The heat mat is to hot.. I guess I'll use a different method this spring. I never would have thought they would sell a heat mat that runs that hot.

Hotwired · December 16, 2012

This is why I like electric blankets as heat mats. I've got one that holds 78F at a "six" setting http://imageshack.us/a/img831/3127/elecblank.jpg . If it were me, I'd get a hand towel and place it between the tray and heat pad. Add towels until you get the soil temp where you want it.

augiedog55 · December 16, 2012

hotwired, i did put a tee shirt between the matt and the cup of medium . its still read 95 degrees so I pulled the trigger on a thermostat for my heat matt tonight on amazon...ouch.. i hope this does the trick.. so you keep your tomato seeds at 78 degrees for optimum germination?

Hotwired · December 16, 2012

It works for me. It's one of those things where everybody swears by something different. I like over 75F and under 80F. Ninety is way to hot unless your making popcorn. I have a bunch of Honeywell controllers and type K thermocouples that I got from work. I have a couple of electric blankets that I bypassed the auto-shutoff and rigged up to the controllers http://imageshack.us/a/img571/2845/223gj.jpg . Those are for the greenhouse. The blanket on my sunporch I just use the standard controller on "6".

greyghost · December 17, 2012

Augie you can use a little higher temp. for peppers, especially hotter varieties. I have good luck germinating them at 85 degrees, or at
least 80 degrees. Glad you got a therm. that goes past 90, it'll let you know
just how much your mat is "overheating". I suspect that if you tried to
pregerminate seeds by putting damp coffee filter/plastic bag directly on your
mat, you might find they were much warmer than 95 degrees.

Tomatoes will germinate pretty well at room temperature also but will take several days longer.

December 15, 2012	#19
augiedog55 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: oak grove mo Posts: 406	Kilroy. Good news and bad news. I'll start with the good news. I did get a cup with some Aussie seeds to germinate. I'm guessing 100%. They are three inches tall right now and getting their first true leave. I'm going to pot them up 3 of the 10 next week to keep practicing on. This is great winter time fun. Now the bad news. For fun last week I took 6 different varities from 2 different vendors to see if I counld get them to sprout in paper towel on a heat mat. I dampened the towel and put 4 seeds from each pack in them and rolled them up and put them in a ziplock . I then I placed all of them on a heat pad. After 6 days I got -0- seeds to sprout. I can't figure that one out at all... The 2 things i could think of is #1 the heat pad is to hot??? Its a hydrofoam 10x20.Its had no heat regulator on it. Its says it can heat up to 20degrees above ambient temp.. Second in both sets of seeds from 2 different vendors were mailed in august when it was HOT. Some days it was 105degrees + here. Could all the seeds have been killed in transportation via the mail because of heat? Today is a new day. I'm going to try and start some seeds from a different vendor in a cup and put them on the heat pad. I'm trying to find out whats up. The cup is big enough i'll try 3 differennt varities. Any thoughts or input on possible problems would be appreciated thanks Bruce Last edited by augiedog55; December 15, 2012 at 09:54 AM.

December 16, 2012	#20
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	When I start seeds in dampened coffee filters in plastic bags, I set them a couple of feet from a furnace vent, up a few feet in the air on a box or chair or whatever, and I leave the bags open after the first 24 hours. Seems to work. Germination can take a few weeks on some reluctant varieties (old seeds, etc), but usually I see roots poking through the seed coats within a week. (It took three tries in successive years with Guido, but I did finally get one to sprout and grow.) __________________ -- alias

December 5, 2012	#16
Hotwired Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ithaca, NY - USDA 5b Posts: 241	Augie... I just went back & read the original thread and noticed "When the seedlings got their first true leave i potted them up to 12 0z clear plastic cups". I used to do this too, until I started having trouble with the soil turning green. The sunlight will produce significant algae growth. I use solid color cups now. Hotwired NY 5b

December 14, 2012	#18
kilroyscarnival Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 614	Ah, that's why I saw green algae in the one clear cup I used! Augie, I hope you've had some success in the past week? Any new seedlings? I had great germination, following the advice posted in the Effective Germination thread in this forum, with a few alterations. I didn't use sterile soilless mix. I used pure coconut coir for half of them, and a 50/50 mix of purchased organic garden soil (Just Natural brand) and coir in the other. I later learned that coir was fine for germination but it has no nutrients. The other thing I did was an idea I got from a YouTube video, and started the seed with about an inch of soil or so in the bottom of the cup, and a dusting of soil over the seed. As the seedling sprung up fast (I think four or five days), I would add more soil mix, as dry and crumbly as possible which made it easy to sprinkle like sand through the fingers, gently around the seedling then gently moistening it. The idea was that this would establish roots going way up the plant from the beginning. I think maybe either way, the roots would have been prolific, but so far I've only done it that way. I made sure the soil mix I added to the coir-only starts was a little richer. Wouldn't do that again. I will also use white foam cups (rather, re-use the ones I have with holes in the bottom) because the clear plastic made the soil and roots pretty hot in early October in Florida. I had great germination, of 32 in my original effort, only 2 didn't germinate at all, and 2-3 got damaged while babies and didn't make it, which was how I got too many cherry plants at one time. I planted fewer of the second batch of seeds I ordered, thinking by then I had probably lost my mind to do more. But now that I've given enough seedlings away I want to start two more Lollipops and two more Jaune Flamme, and maybe a few more of the paste varieties, for planting out after freezing temps are a possibility.

December 16, 2012	#21
greyghost Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: southeastern PA Posts: 760	Augie, I use hydro. germination mats quite often. When I first started using them, I had poor or no germination on one or two tries. One was in soil (inserts for 1020 size trays), the other was a pregermation of seeds. Using a thermometer, I found the mats were overheating plastic bags laying directly on them as well as trays that were covered. I'm not sure all the hydrofarm mats would do this but I watch carefully for overheating now, especially for tomatoes. Tomatoes do well without a mat but it's sometimes more convenient for me to use them. They're really a big help with peppers though. Darlene

December 17, 2012	#30
greyghost Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: southeastern PA Posts: 760	Augie you can use a little higher temp. for peppers, especially hotter varieties. I have good luck germinating them at 85 degrees, or at least 80 degrees. Glad you got a therm. that goes past 90, it'll let you know just how much your mat is "overheating". I suspect that if you tried to pregerminate seeds by putting damp coffee filter/plastic bag directly on your mat, you might find they were much warmer than 95 degrees. Tomatoes will germinate pretty well at room temperature also but will take several days longer.