Diseased plants?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Fmk602

Scott

I agree that kerosene is " a little too much" but I was curious about its use. I was interested in the baking soda and if it would work in an organic garden. I'm not sure if "saltmarsh" uses kerosene either since they said they have another recipe. I would like to hear about it.

I am actually getting ready to take a Permaculture Design Course and would be very interested in what you would do with spider mites, or any pest that takes over a particular plant.
Do you consider any controls acceptable? This last fall I let the aphids take over my rapini. It was very difficult but they were blooming and I noticed hover flies were all over them.

The permaculture way to handle mites or aphids would be beneficial biological control. If you have a bad outbreak that is too much to handle for your native biologicals, then you can buy lady bugs for aphids and predatory mites for spider mites. There are also bacterial and fungus solutions to most pests.

The main thing about pest control in a permaculture system is to make sure that any pest control you use, even if organic, doesn't kill off all the predators too. If that happens you'll end up in a cycle of bad outbreaks, followed by pest control, followed by bad outbreaks, followed by more pest control and on and on forever ... in a roller coaster ride that all gardeners and farmers know so well. Permaculture at least tries to find a balance between the highs and lows.

One thing I have found though. Words of wisdom from someone doing this many many years. It doesn't pay to be dogmatic about it. You don't have to be perfect. There is no need to make it a "religion". Just make it a general philosophy and principle. More like a general guideline. But don't just watch helplessly while a pest destroys your crop just because you are afraid of killing a beneficial. Use a bit of common sense and handle each case as it seems best to you. There will be mistakes. Or in my case epic failures!!!!!!! But eventually you should gain experience from that! We are all learning here!

[saltmarsh]

Fran, the baking soda and kerosene recipe came from a conversation about farming back during the depression of the 30's. Back then because of the condition of the roads or lack of any roads, a trip to town might take all day or longer. People made do with what they had on hand or did without. Most farms were nearly self-sufficient.
The notes I made at the time only say for control of aphids, spider mites, rust and powdery mildew and the recipe. Does it work? I don't know because I haven't tried it, but losing a crop under the conditions back then would have been a disaster, so I'm betting it does.
We always had kerosene on the farm when I was growing up. If you had a bad cut it would stop the blood flow and disinfect the wound and washed off with soap and water. Not exactly modern medical technology, but better than bleeding out.

Back on topic. What I use and why.
I try to increase the life in the soil so the bacteria and other organisms can make nutrients available to the plants just as they do in our bodies. A healthy plant can withstand attacks better than a stressed plant. With a lot of insects, I'm not trying kill them so much as I'm trying to encourage them to move on and find their meal elsewhere. I also use companion plants to do this, pig weed (amaranth) and mustard are good examples. If you have a particular insect which is a problem, try to find a plant it prefers and use that as a trap crop.
I don't use any insecticides or pesticides(except dish washing liquid) or commercial fertilizers. Most people want something they can buy off the shelf, apply and be done with it. My cup of tea isn't for those people.
I spray once a week with a combination spray which does everything I want in one application.
The spray consists of:
Lactobacillus inoculate (made from organic yogurt) - 1/4 cup per 2 gallons of spray
Horsetail tea (Equisetum arvense) - 2 1/2 cups per 2 gallons of spray
Garlic/Hot Pepper/Ground Sage tea - 1 gallon per 2 gallons of spray
Palmolive Orange Dish washing liquid (has orange oil) 1 tablespoon per 2 gallons of spray
non-chlorinated water - 1 gallon per 2 gallons of spray

This is sprayed on the ground around the plants as well as the plants.

I use the spray before I plant and again after I plant to kill as many cutworms and leaf hoppers as possible and to keep the raccoons from digging up my seeds.

I have an army of martins, robins, blue jays, chimney sweeps, and finches working all day as well as beneficial insects.

In the late spring of 2012, I was sick and unable to spray for a couple of weeks. When I got back on my feet, I noticed 2 Black Krim tomato plants on the end of a row and 1 Kornesvsije tomato plant about 100 feet away had spider mites. I sprayed them as normal and didn't see any evidence of them after that. Claud

[Fmk602]

Thank you everyone for the great advice! I will put it away for the future.

[ArcherB]

These look like russet mites to me. I've never looked under a microscope at them, but I get the same symptoms every year. There is only one thing that I've ever done that has been moderately successful.

However, this last year, I noticed something. I have two beds, one on each side of my yard. The bed on the North fence almost always does better than the South fence. I figured that this was because the plants on the South fence sat in shadow early in the season until the sun crests the fence line, while the N fence plants face south, so they get sun all season. However, this last year, the bed on the south side not only outproduced the N. fence bed, but it produced as much as BOTH beds did the year before. The N. bed was ravished by what appears to be mites and most of the plants produced nothing. The S. Bed had the same problem, but it wasn't nearly as bad. I think I found out why. After the plants were pulled a couple of months ago, I noticed that the soil on the S. bed was light and fluffy. The soil on the N. Bed was hard pan clay. For whatever reason, all the compost on the N. bed disappeared (different story). So, I believe the better soil allowed the S. bed plants to stand up to the mites better.

Also, the only thing I've found that helps is to spray the entire plants down every day with a strong jet of water. I don't know if I'm washing mites off or they just like the water and it makes them more healthy. Spraying with water was not enough to help me out this last year.

For this 2013 season, I've already taken steps to fix the N. Bed soil. It's as good or better than the S. bed last year. I'm also planning on spraying them every other week with either straight seaweed emulsion, as I read this helps, or a product called Medina HastaGrow Plant, which I believe has seaweed in it. I'm also considering compost tea.

If you find a product that makes these little "buggars" (Was Be-Stards) die a painful death, please let me know.

EDIT
Here is the link for Hasta gro Plant
http://www.hastagro.com/product_details.php?pid=Mzc=

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by ArcherB

If you find a product that makes these little "buggars" (Was Be-Stards) die a painful death, please let me know.

There are a lot of different predatory mites available. Here is one product that might work for you.

http://www.arbico-organics.com/produ...er-guide-mites

Keep in mind that is just one species of mite from one vender. There are others at a wide variety of price ranges. But you said you wanted a product that caused your russet mites a painful death. I think being eaten alive fits that description perfectly.

[Fmk602]

Thanks again everyone! Scott much appreciated. I am familiar with this company as they are in my general area! I was going to try and figure out which one to use but thanks to you the work has been done!! By the way I just had the first class of the PDC. Very good, but my brain is swimming!

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Fmk602

Tracy
What do you typically do for the iron deficiency ( I added ironite in sept but much after the fact) and ph problems?

What are you doing with your tomatoes at this time of year?

Fran

I use ironite. I used a bunch of sulpher in the past couple of years. Plenty of manure and organic material. Ironite has some sulphur as well.
I don't worry too much about checking the ph since its just high. I have more problems in the beds around my house, from the concrete. I just watch for yellowing and add ironite. It's worse in very hot or very cool weather. Sometimes, if its very wet, you need to add iron, too.
My lemon trees used to need it a lot, until I put my chicken pen around them. I haven't needed to add iron since.
I've lost all my tomatoes, except my three dwarfs that I brought indoors.

[defineaproblem]

Here is the mixture that I used on other plants.
Not sure about tomatoes.
It can burn some plants.

To control powdery mildew on plants, mix together:
1 tablespoon of baking soda
½ teaspoon of liquid soap
1 gallon of water
Do not store unused mixture. While this recipe has been known to be effective, it can burn the leaves of some plants. It is recommended that you water your infected plants well a couple of days before applying this mixture, and don’t apply it in full sun. Try on a small area first, to test the plant’s response before spraying the entire plant. Some recipes also recommend applying 1 tablespoon of ultralight horticultural oil to the mixture. The oil coats and smothers the fungi. The soap is added to help the mix spread and cling to the leaf surface. Be sure to apply to lower leaf surfaces as well.

Can also use 2 1/2 TBSP cooking oil + 2 1/2 TBSP baby shampoo with 2 TBSP baking soda

It is said to work on mites and some other small soft bodied insects. Not sure since my main bugs are squash bugs, cucumber beattles which this does not work on and are not problem insects of tomatoes.