struggling seedlings whats wrong?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by pecker88

I used dye drops, no electronic pH meter. After 3 drops per the instructions, it immediately turned red, indicating low pH. RO water is about 6.5.

That seems impossible that condensed water vapor could have as low a PH of 4.0. Your typical PH indicator dyes may give very erroneous readings in a low ion solution just like an electronic PH meter will. There are special indicator dyes that can give accurate results of a low ion solution but those aren't found in your typical PH test kits.

[Gerardo]

Give 'em some bottled water for a week or so, then you can decide if it was the culprit. Hard to solve your mystery, since most things appear to be in order.

Glass half full says wait 'em out and they will improve.

Glass half empty says axe 'em and start over, NOOOOOOW! kerney thomas-style.

Best of luck either way, and please tell us how they do.

[justplainmike]

GeeWizzz seems complicated !!
jpm

[Imthechuck]

Same thing happened to my starts this year

Ran out of fish emulsion I had from last year and used the blue stuff

now they are all looking sad With what looks like mag deficiency

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I have seen my young seedlings turn yellow right after giving them a dose of the blue fertilizer, even though it was weak. That happened 2 years in a row. It was cured almost right away with a weak epsom salt solution, both years. Mix 1 Tablespoon into a gallon of water, I promise they will green up right away,like in a day or 2.

I no longer give my seelings the blue stuff, even weak, because it seems to induce a magnesium deficiency. Salt ( Robert) is correct, usually those starting yellow leaves were from overwatering, always feel the soil down to the first knuckle, dont just look for dry and pulling away on the surface.

I like zipcodes Osmocote idea, might try that this season.

[pecker88]

Its been awhile since my initial post, thought I'd share some updated pics. These pics are about 25 days after the initial post.

The bad start was due to too much fertilizer, and low pH water. But it wasn't over, after they were transplanted to the 5 gal. buckets, I burned them again with full strength hydroponic nutrients, roughly 800ppm.

Since then I've decreased the solution to 200ppm, and also added calMag+. Hopefully tonight I can post current pics, like I said these are about a week old.

New Big Dwarf:


Totem


Habanero:


Purple Jalapeno:

[Nematode]

Something else is going on I would check your ppm calculation or meter.
I run mine at 2900ppm with no ill effects.
Start seedlings at 1/4 that. Work them quickly to 1/2 that.
Full strength when they go outside.
The curved under leaves are called "bullish" and a sign of overfertilization, usually N.
Plants dont look too bad now, but you should figure out whats up. Stick with it, they gonna be great.

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by Nematode

Something else is going on I would check your ppm calculation or meter.
I run mine at 2900ppm with no ill effects.
Start seedlings at 1/4 that. Work them quickly to 1/2 that.
Full strength when they go outside.
The curved under leaves are called "bullish" and a sign of overfertilization, usually N.
Plants dont look too bad now, but you should figure out whats up. Stick with it, they gonna be great.

I haven't calibrated ppm meter, but it acts correctly. Full strength solution is about 1200ppm, plain RO water is 67ppm.
I really backed off the hydroponic nutrient concentration because I put 1-2 tbsp of 8-8-8 granular fertilizer in each of the 5 gal. buckets medium. I also put a small handful of dolomite lime.

Is it possible to over water with self watering buckets?

There is a 3" net pot in the bottom of the inner bucket. The net pot and inner bucket is filled with a 50/50 mix of ProMix Ultimate and ProMix Ultimate Organic. The net pot is submerged in water and there is a 1/2" to 1" air gap between the outer bucket water level and the bottom of the inner bucket.

I really don't use the fill tube. All the buckets in the system are connected to a reservoir. The water level is maintained by a small float valve so there is no doubt that gravity maintains the same water level in all the buckets.

Inner bucket:



Inside view:


group shot:

[Nematode]

There are some on here using self waterers i would poke around and reach out to them, see what they are doing for media and nutrients. I wouldn't re-invent it until you get a handle on whats working for others, then tweak it for your own purposes.
RGGS is one system that uses net pots like you.

I'm straight hydro with emitter feed and neutral media. I find it easier than having some nutrients stored in the media, i always know what the plants are getting.

good luck

[pecker88]

Originally Posted by Nematode

There are some on here using self waterers i would poke around and reach out to them, see what they are doing for media and nutrients. I wouldn't re-invent it until you get a handle on whats working for others, then tweak it for your own purposes.
RGGS is one system that uses net pots like you.

I'm straight hydro with emitter feed and neutral media. I find it easier than having some nutrients stored in the media, i always know what the plants are getting.

good luck

thanks. I haven't seen any posts of people using self waterers indoors with hydro. nutrients. Tons of people doing it outside, but from what I'm learning, outside self watering containers behave very differently indoors.

I have to post some current pics tonight, the totem is really flowering like crazy and has about 8 marble sized fruits.

Whats interesting is that I started a 2nd batch of seedlings in fox farm ocean forest soil with extra perlite. Just like the first round, and just like my self-watering planters they also were bullish and received ONLY RO water; no nutrients.

The common variables in all self-watering, seedlings #1 and seedlings #2 toms....lights, RO water, and seed. I was able to eliminate the yellow lower crispy leaves with seedlings #2, but they are all still bullish.

[Gerardo]

I'm gonna say that batch of Fox Farms is running a little hot. Try a third one with some good coir, generous perlite, and a tiny bit of worm castings; or whatever relatively neutral mix you can put together and I bet it'll produce what you want.

ps Peppers seem real happy.

[Bipetual]

I think the answer to your overwatering question is yes. We grow in self-watering buckets outside, and when plants are small or it's cool or cloudy out they sometimes get pale leaves and look like they've had too much water. Very nice job on your buckets, by the way. They look super sharp!

[pecker88]

One other thing is that by evening all the plants (especially peppers) are drooping like in the above pics. By morning after 8 hrs of darkness the peppers are perked up, the toms not so much.

Temp is a consistent 77 during day, 73 at night.
400w MH light on the left, 400w HPS light on the right; both running at 75% power.

[Ricky Shaw]

^ Good set-up! I bet you're going to get this all dialed in nicely.

[pecker88]

Tested each bucket's reservoir. pH was about 6.7. 400-550 ppm.
I lowered pH to 6.0 and tried to lower ppm to 400 by dipping out water and replacing with fresh water.




New Big Dwarf (tag in pic is wrong)


Habanero


Tons of branches growing under the top canopy:


Totem, this is the only plant with tons of roots down into the reservoir already


Totem green toms:


Purple Jalapeno:


Tons of Purple Jalapeno buds:


New Big Dwarf transplanted about 10 days ago


Krakty hydro. butterhead lettuce


You gotta see the roots, right:




Totem seedling in Fox Farm Ocean forest on left.
New Big Dwarf seedling in rockwool cube, ProMix and Perlite (also a tiny pinch of granular 8-8-8 fert.) on right. Both are curling.



Top bucket is reservoir, bottom bucket has float valve that controls water level in all buckets

[Nematode]

Took a quick look at the ocean forest, adding hydro nutrients to that would result in an overfeed situation, at least until the plants run the level down a bit. They will let you know when they are hungry.
Bottom fed hydro can work but may need occassional (couple times a season?) flushing from the top to prevent salt buildup.