Tomato Seed Fermentation in Closed Jars. - Page 2

ilex · September 5, 2015

I use zip bags. Plenty of air inside, fungal mat forms, no smell unless you leave them out a few weeks, you can write outside and very easy processing.

ginger2778 · September 5, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Around here, we put a plastic snake in the cherry trees. You ought to see the aerial combat maneuvers the birds pull off when they suddenly notice the snake just before getting to the tree.

The "G" forces they endure to escape the area are way up the ladder. I've seen some lose a few feathers they are turning so hard.

we need a like button!

Labradors2 · September 5, 2015

Ted, could you please give the dilution rate for the bleach rinse?

Thanks,
Linda

ContainerTed · September 5, 2015

With the usual old timey bleach (not the more recent "concentrated" products), I use a 4 to 1 rato of water to bleach. It doesn't have to be precise, but should be at least 4 to 1. A one gallon bottle of generic chlorite bleach should cost not more than about 3 dollars at the discount stores. One gallon will last me about 2 years, and that includes my use of the bleach when I clean up the germnation trays for the year.

Also, my original post may have confused the chlorox rinse as the "last" rinse. Not so. You must rinse the seeds thoroughly with water after the chlorox rinse. I'm going to edit the original post if I still can.

I've added this link to my document over on Tomatobase. I haven't really changed my methods since I did this document.

Edited to add this link: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki...g_Fermentation

Worth1 · September 5, 2015

I looked on line and it had some usual uses for bleach and how to convert them to the new concentrated bleach.

The part that I think would look good for us is the mixture that would be for cleaning walls and floors after flooding.
The old bleach was 3/4 cups of bleach to 1 gallon of water the concentrated was 1/2 cup to a gallon of water.

Like Ted said it doesn't have to be exact so this should help.

Also here is the link and the chart.

Another thing you could do is buy the concentrated bleach as it is in a smaller container and put it in a gallon container and add enough water to make a gallon.
You now have regular bleach.

http://www.waterandhealth.org/high-strength-bleach/

Worth1 · September 5, 2015

Throughout the years I have learned many people dont think the way I think.
This may be a no brainer to some but to others it may not be.
Here is what you can do when rinsing seeds with bleach water so you can keep and reuse it.
Get another empty bleach jug, a funnel and a strainer.
Put the funnel and seeds on the top of the jug and pour the bleach over them.

You now have two jugs for bleach water that can be poured back and forth not wasting any bleach.

If you look you will also find funnels with a screen in it.
You will find them where they sell funnels for fuel.
You can use these and bypass the strainer all together.

Worth
Bleach jug.1.jpg

clara · September 5, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Around here, we put a plastic snake in the cherry trees. You ought to see the aerial combat maneuvers the birds pull off when they suddenly notice the snake just before getting to the tree.

The "G" forces they endure to escape the area are way up the ladder. I've seen some lose a few feathers they are turning so hard.

Ted, that reminds me of a pigeon on its way to the cherries when the raven there had just been placed! That (poor, no, I really hate them) beast made a sharp curve to a one of the living-rooms windows - only to discover that there was another raven that had not found a place in the garden. I can't describe exactly what a temerarious maneuver it made to "escape" the other raven, some kind of a roll, another 90° curve, then I could not see it anymore - but I was very pleased with my ravens!

Thanks for the tip with the snake; I'll try to get one for next year.

ContainerTed · September 5, 2015

Yeah, Clara. Pick any contrasting color. I like the ones that would be a close replica of desert rattlers. They are pretty easy to see. I like to go out there and move them about once a week - increase the shock factors when the birds "re-discover".

Around here, they even sell them in the Co-ops, along with owls and hawks.

clara · September 5, 2015

Snakes are very rare in Germany, we only have one which is poisonous (adder), the others are harmless (blindworm). I've seen both only in a zoo - and I am very happy about this fact...

Starlight · September 5, 2015

I have a question. Using the bleach right after fermentation helps the seeds. What about say if you have received seed that been long dried and packaged. Can you do the bleach process and have success or is to late?

ContainerTed · September 5, 2015

Yes you can. I would recommend that you do so just before you plant them. It means you will be handling wet (or undried seeds), but this will help get the germination a headstart. You don't have to wait on the seeds to get damp or wet all the way thru.

**carolyn137** · September 5, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

Yes you can. I would recommend that you do so just before you plant them. It means you will be handling wet (or undried seeds), but this will help get the germination a headstart. You don't have to wait on the seeds to get damp or wet all the way thru.

Ted, have you or anyone you know ever found any data to indicate the efficacy of bleach treatment to remove pathogens from the seed coat?

Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult but I'm not the only one who has looked and can find no documentation.

Yes, I do know that it's been used to help wake up old seeds or at least increase the percent germination somewhat, I haven't used it for that since I have much more experience with the method I finally decided to use for waking up old seeds.

Carolyn

ContainerTed · September 5, 2015

I don't have any real statistical data, but it makes me feel better when I do it. For me, it comes easily ever sinse I looked at a tomato seed under a microscope. All those "hairs" can hide debris (yes, I know it would be really small debris and, no, I've never seen any on a seed while looking thru the microscope) and that debris "could" have pathogens in it. So, I reasoned that to be on the safe side, and because the clorox bath helps with germination, I would do the clorox rinse. Sometimes I wait and do it just before planting.

But I don't have any REAL data, nor have I seen any in all my visits around the web. I do remember that at the time I did the document that is on Tomatobase, it was one of the things that was being strongly recommended by the mainstream folks here and at Idig and GW. At least it seemed so to me at the time.

In today's scenarios, I do the rinse if I'm sending out seeds or even if (at the time), I'm only INTENDING to send some out. Again, it doesn't hurt and may, in fact, help.

Labradors2 · September 5, 2015

Thanks Ted. The bleach step sounds like a good one for those times when perhaps the seed hasn't fermented quite as thoroughly as one would have hoped!

Linda

seaeagle · September 6, 2015

This is what the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs says on their research of bacterial diseases of the tomato.

"Seed extraction alone, whether through fermentation or acid methods, is not a reliable method of eliminating bacteria on the seed. Extraction should be followed by a hot water, acid or chlorine disinfection. All seed lots should be disinfected by one of these methods."

This is exactly what Ted says to do, this guy knows what he is doing with tomato seed disinfection

September 5, 2015	#19
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	With the usual old timey bleach (not the more recent "concentrated" products), I use a 4 to 1 rato of water to bleach. It doesn't have to be precise, but should be at least 4 to 1. A one gallon bottle of generic chlorite bleach should cost not more than about 3 dollars at the discount stores. One gallon will last me about 2 years, and that includes my use of the bleach when I clean up the germnation trays for the year. Also, my original post may have confused the chlorox rinse as the "last" rinse. Not so. You must rinse the seeds thoroughly with water after the chlorox rinse. I'm going to edit the original post if I still can. I've added this link to my document over on Tomatobase. I haven't really changed my methods since I did this document. Edited to add this link: http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki...g_Fermentation __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch Last edited by ContainerTed; September 5, 2015 at 10:22 AM.

September 5, 2015	#21
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Throughout the years I have learned many people dont think the way I think. This may be a no brainer to some but to others it may not be. Here is what you can do when rinsing seeds with bleach water so you can keep and reuse it. Get another empty bleach jug, a funnel and a strainer. Put the funnel and seeds on the top of the jug and pour the bleach over them. You now have two jugs for bleach water that can be poured back and forth not wasting any bleach. If you look you will also find funnels with a screen in it. You will find them where they sell funnels for fuel. You can use these and bypass the strainer all together. Worth Bleach jug.1.jpg Last edited by Worth1; September 5, 2015 at 11:32 AM.

September 5, 2015	#23
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Yeah, Clara. Pick any contrasting color. I like the ones that would be a close replica of desert rattlers. They are pretty easy to see. I like to go out there and move them about once a week - increase the shock factors when the birds "re-discover". Around here, they even sell them in the Co-ops, along with owls and hawks. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

September 5, 2015	#26
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Yes you can. I would recommend that you do so just before you plant them. It means you will be handling wet (or undried seeds), but this will help get the germination a headstart. You don't have to wait on the seeds to get damp or wet all the way thru. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

September 5, 2015	#28
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	I don't have any real statistical data, but it makes me feel better when I do it. For me, it comes easily ever sinse I looked at a tomato seed under a microscope. All those "hairs" can hide debris (yes, I know it would be really small debris and, no, I've never seen any on a seed while looking thru the microscope) and that debris "could" have pathogens in it. So, I reasoned that to be on the safe side, and because the clorox bath helps with germination, I would do the clorox rinse. Sometimes I wait and do it just before planting. But I don't have any REAL data, nor have I seen any in all my visits around the web. I do remember that at the time I did the document that is on Tomatobase, it was one of the things that was being strongly recommended by the mainstream folks here and at Idig and GW. At least it seemed so to me at the time. In today's scenarios, I do the rinse if I'm sending out seeds or even if (at the time), I'm only INTENDING to send some out. Again, it doesn't hurt and may, in fact, help. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

September 5, 2015	#16
ilex Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Spain Posts: 416	I use zip bags. Plenty of air inside, fungal mat forms, no smell unless you leave them out a few weeks, you can write outside and very easy processing.

September 5, 2015	#18
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,898	Ted, could you please give the dilution rate for the bleach rinse? Thanks, Linda

September 5, 2015	#24
clara Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 1,351	Snakes are very rare in Germany, we only have one which is poisonous (adder), the others are harmless (blindworm). I've seen both only in a zoo - and I am very happy about this fact...

September 5, 2015	#25
Starlight Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: AL Posts: 1,993	I have a question. Using the bleach right after fermentation helps the seeds. What about say if you have received seed that been long dried and packaged. Can you do the bleach process and have success or is to late?

September 6, 2015	#30
seaeagle Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: virginia Posts: 743	This is what the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Affairs says on their research of bacterial diseases of the tomato. "Seed extraction alone, whether through fermentation or acid methods, is not a reliable method of eliminating bacteria on the seed. Extraction should be followed by a hot water, acid or chlorine disinfection. All seed lots should be disinfected by one of these methods." This is exactly what Ted says to do, this guy knows what he is doing with tomato seed disinfection