What hypothetical tomato crosses interest you?

[bower]

Shule, that is a crazy big list!! You would pretty much need all the farmland in the USA to grow out the F2s.
It really isn't difficult to make a cross. There are some excellent videos on YouTube that show different techniques of 'emasculating' the female parent so it doesn't self pollinate. Best to set up several 'mother flowers' to make sure one takes (my first attempt at crossing was 50% successful). You should pick a cross to try and give it a go. Lots of fun in the selection.
There are resources online that list the designated names of known tomato genes, which will show if parthenocarpic is a dominant trait by having a capital letter. Lower case means recessive or it can also be additive. It can be complicated (linkage can change your expected ratios too) but that makes for more surprises in the grow outs, until you find the trait combination you're looking for. The surprises can be really cool and sometimes you can't pass up what was unintended.

[IronPete]

Reisetomate x Blue Berries
• Reisetomate x Dark Galaxy

I find these interesting. I am going to try crossing Reisetomate against black cherry this year.

Pete

[Nattybo!]

Ok, help me out here b/c I really want to understand. Are there traits that are stuck to the matriarchal parent? And different traits stuck to the patriarchal parent? Like if you wanted to create a green striped white cherry, would green zebra cherry be better as the pollen doner or the mom?

If I had the land I would focus on cherries. People like finger foods/snacks and cherry tomatoes are a healthy snack. People are also lazy. Washing a pint of cherries is easy. Eating cherry tomatoes is easy. No knife required.

All this talk about crosses makes think I am missing out on something lol!
Anyways, the cross I am hoping to make this summer is Green Zebra cherry x Snow White. I think white tomatoes are really pretty and unusual and they would make a great addition to a pint of tomatoes.

So I am seconding or thirding? that crosses done in the cherry size would be a great place to go.

[Fred Hempel]

I think maternal or paternal associated traits, while not completely impossible, are very rare.

More commonly, choosing one variety for the male and one for the female should be done based on which one is the best female.

We have found that many varieties are simply hard to use as females (weak styles, low seed counts, and just general suckiness). Ironically, in our experience, cherry tomatoes are much easier to use, and the frequency of good crosses with good seed count/fruit seems to decrease as the size of the tomato increases.

[gardeninglee]

For me sunsugar is identical to sungold in every way except the fruit is slightly larger and it does not crack. I grew them side by side one year and stopped growing sungold after that. They both produced very early and very well even on my patio which does not get very much sun. I can overwinter them both as well to get a couple of cherries in before my new plants start producing.

I've never grown zluta kytice but a lot of people here say it tastes very good. I'd love for my sunsugar to produce more.

Then maybe I would only grow one cherry plant but as it is my kids eat so many cherries I grow 3-4 and then still buy them at the grocery store! And I only have two kids. =)

Originally Posted by shule1

@gardeninglee

Does SunSugar F1 have the same sort of vigorous plant habit as SunGold F1 is said to? From what I've read, the fruit sounds just as good, but it seems to depend a lot on where you grow it, as to who favors one over the other. I think AKmark does a lot of crosses with BB, with larger fruits, anyhow.

If you've tasted Zluta Kytice, what do you think?

Originally Posted by Worth1

Matt's wild cherry and Mexico.
Worth

That sounds pretty cool. I've been wanting to grow both of those for a while, but probably won't until at least 2018. I'd likely grow a cross between them sooner, however, if I had it.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by shule1

That sounds pretty cool. I've been wanting to grow both of those for a while, but probably won't until at least 2018. I'd likely grow a cross between them sooner, however, if I had it.

I think somewhere in that gene pool there is one fine tomato for the heat.

Worth

@Nattybo! and Fred Hempel

It matters if you're concerned about mtDNA and sex linkage, at least, although I don't know 100% for sure how much it matters in any particular tomato cross. We'd really have to compare both kinds of crosses (on a lot of kinds of crosses) to know much about what difference it makes, I'm thinking. I don't know how common sex-linkage is in tomatoes, but it does exist in plants. mtDNA is only supposed to come from one of the parents (probably the mother, as with humans, although that's just a guess for tomatoes), whether or not it's the parent that the tomato most resembles.

I have noticed that in most of the muskmelon/watermelon crosses I've seen, that the F1 hybrid often seems to resemble the mother a lot more than the father in fruit size and appearance (but I haven't seen the parents reversed to compare it with). That could just be coincidence. However, I think it's worth investigating and doing experiments to see what happens. I wonder if the mtDNA might have anything to do with it, as it's only supposed to be passed from one parent.

One thing that confuses me, though, is that people say that red tomatoes and red watermelon are dominant to yellow (and maybe other colors), but I see things like Big Sungold Select tomatoes and Hopi Yellow watermelon that sometimes give you seeds that produce red-fleshed fruits (which would seem to be impossible if red is dominant, unless something else is going on here). Big Sungold Select is pretty much orange, though (so, it might be a different gene).

Anyway, my decision as to which tomato to use as the mother is based on this:
* My observation with melons
* If my observation with melons was just a coincidence (or otherwise inapplicable) then at least I'll either notice significant lessening in fruit size when the cross takes, or else I'll have a larger-fruited cross (because the mother was larger-fruited). You notice I used a lot of larger-fruited varieties for the matriarchal line. It feels good to notice that a cross actually took, and it also feels good to have an F1 hybrid with large fruit (to me)—so, no matter which of those things happens, it's a win-win situation. Whereas, if I used a cherry for the mother, and if the F1 wasn't very different than the mother, I'd probably be less enthusiastic about than if I got a small tomato from a big tomato mother (since it would be harder to tell if the cherry mother was crossed). In theory, you'd notice the difference in fruit size with the cross either way (but I couldn't tell for sure that my Ginger's Pride x Ha'Ogen melon was a cross until I noticed unique Ha'Ogen patterns and colors on the fruit skins later in the season; Ha'Ogen is a lot smaller than both Ginger's Pride and the F1 hybrid; the hybrid was only a little bit smaller than Ginger's Pride was for me the year before, but the hybrid was a whole lot more productive, with three plants in one spot instead of only one, so I thought the productivity and three plants might have accounted for the somewhat smaller fruit).

Anyway, I just chose the tomato for the mother that I wanted the fruit to resemble in size the most (I'm not saying it would resemble it most, though).

[Nan_PA_6b]

I know what results I want but not which tomatoes to cross. I want a multiflora micro with red, valentine-heart-shaped fruits. Cuteness off the scale, and the best gift for Valentine's & Mother's Days. So any suggestions on which tomatoes I should use in the cross?

Nan

Nan,

AlittleSalt was working on something like that (VHS Cherry). What do you mean by micro? Fruit size? Plant? Flowers?

You might try something like Tarasenko 2 x Ildi. I'm not sure what would be the best multiflora, but Ildi sounds good, except that you'd have to breed the yellow out of the cross if you wanted to stabilize it. There was an oxheart cherry I saw somewhere that looked pretty good, I think. I forgot what it was called, but I think it was already a hybrid.

[Keen101]

Originally Posted by shule1

One thing that confuses me, though, is that people say that red tomatoes and red watermelon are dominant to yellow (and maybe other colors), but I see things like Big Sungold Select tomatoes and Hopi Yellow watermelon that sometimes give you seeds that produce red-fleshed fruits (which would seem to be impossible if red is dominant, unless something else is going on here). Big Sungold Select is pretty much orange, though (so, it might be a different gene).

In the case of Watemelon, there are at least two different yellow fleshed watermelons. One is dominant to red, the other is recessive. I personally find the Canary Yellow flesh watermelons to taste the best, maybe even better than red, though a truly good red one can give even the Canary Yellow watermelons a run for their money. I find the salmon yellow fleshed to taste awful. Spitters in my opinion. Cant remember which type the Hopi Yellow are, but if i had to guess i think they are salmon yellow. Hopi Yellow was one of many parent varieties that went into both Joseph Lofthouse's and my own watermelon landrace projects. Joseph has continued to select for only yellow (not sure which type), i have only started to select out any insipid salmon yellows, leaving any red or canary yellow.

Watermelon flesh color is controlled by several genes to produce scarlet red, coral red, orange, salmon yellow, canary yellow, or white. Canary yellow (C) is dominant to other colored flesh (c). Coral red flesh (Y) is dominant to salmon yellow (y). Orange flesh (y-o) is a member of multiple allelic system at that locus, where Y (coral red flesh) is dominant to both y-o (orange flesh) and y (salmon yellow), and y-o (orange flesh) is dominant to y (salmon yellow). In a separate study, two loci with epistatic interaction controlled white, yellow, and red flesh. Yellow flesh (B) is dominant to red flesh.

http://cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cgc/cgcgen...e07wmelon.html

In the case of Tomatoes i'm still new to the tomato genetics since i have yet to learn how to reliably grow a good harvest of tomatoes. I'll get there eventually. Success may lie either in me improving my soil, or breeding my own variety that does well in spite of my poor soil. I'm leaning toward the latter.

From what i understand there are three different ways to get an orange tomato. Maybe four?

Tangerine seems to be the most common, but i guess is recessive, hence the lower case "t".
Delta i think might be dominant or partially dominant since it is listed in capital letters, hence the "Del" designation. But apparently rare.
I'm not entirely sure if B for "Beta-Carotine" is separate from Del or not. If it is i suspect it too is dominant.

and apparently the new kid on the block is the "apricot" gene. Which apparently people don't really know much about. But it sounds interesting.

My three Sources:

http://frogsleapfarm.blogspot.com/20...-color-in.html

http://the-biologist-is-in.blogspot....-tomatoes.html

http://kdcomm.net/~tomato/Tomato/color.html

[Cole_Robbie]

I'd like to see Taxi crossed with something to raise its sugar content.

@Keen101

Awesome! Thanks for all that info.

I grew Hopi Yellow in 2016, and got both yellow and red fruits (each with a different seed color). I wasn't terribly impressed with either as first-year watermelons, but I intend to grow both again this year for genetic diversity, especially now that I know it's supposed to be somewhat larger that I initially thought. As long as it doesn't smell like pumpkin, like one yellow variety I had once, I might be happy with it next year, and I'll try not to complain even if it does (for the sake of nutrient diversity).

What kind of soil do you have for tomatoes?

You might try Australian tomatoes like Aussie, Grosse Lisse and Tatura. It's often hot and dry in lots of Australia (not all of it), and I've read about problems with poor soil there. I've tried Aussie. I liked it a lot, but Tim's Black Ruffles smothered it by the time I got my first fruit or two (which was fairly early on in the season). Never grow Tim's Black Ruffles next to anything, except maybe Matina (which smothered Tim's Black Ruffles at the end of the season). Matina didn't seem to smother anything else, though (part of my Cuostralee plant grew happily with it in the same huge tomato cage). A friend of mine in a neighboring town liked Grosse Lisse as a Celebrity F1 replacement.

How long is your growing season? If the length is an issue, you can try cold-treating seedlings to get earlier tomatoes. I think they do that with most store-bought plants. This might be why Early Girl F1 is significantly earlier for some people than others (it is often sold as a plant by big businesses).

For me, my biggest producers so far have probably been these:
* Roma
* Yellow Pear / Red Pear
* Matina
* Early Girl F1
* Thessaloniki
* unknown varieties that were supposed to be Jim Dandy and Ambrosia Red
* Green Pear
* Sweet Orange Cherry
* Pink Cheeks
* Husky Cherry Red F1
* Galapagos Island (from Winter Sown)
* Chapman
* Cuostralee
* Sweet Ozark Orange
* Zapotec
* Mexican Yellow
* Black Giant
* Malinovoe Chudo
* Seek No Further Love Apple

Some of those were a lot more productive than others on the list, but I see production potential in them all for sure. If I only had one season, and wanted lots of pounds of tomatoes, I'd go with Matina, Thessaloniki, Early Girl F1 and Roma (out of those).

I have a long list of new tomatoes to try. This year, I'm hoping to find several particularly productive and early ones. When I find enough like that, I intend to grow mostly those, stop growing the plants so close together (I mostly just do that so I can grow more varieties) and take people by surprise who might be expecting harvests similar to previous years (which weren't exactly slim, but for the sheer number of plants, it's been fairly slim). I need to re-work my list. It looks like I may have to give up some of my tomato-growing land to a close relative who wants to grow stuff, this year. So, I might have to scratch more off my list than I thought (and I might have to grow in a fashion to compete with productive hybrids, instead of trialing so many new varieties; so, I might just grow the new varieties I'm most optimistic about, and all the early ones—and save the others for another year).

A field with full sun all over it, transportation there and back, and a well to water it would be so nice to own. Even without the well, that would still be awesome. I have tricks to make dry farming easier:

Trick #1: Grow the plants tall, and plant them deep (so they have more moisture all the time)
Trick #2: Direct-seed the plants and *only* water them for germination. I've found that tomatillos, at least, don't seem to ever ask for water if they've never been watered. Water them once or twice and they'll want you to do it again, it seems.
Trick #3: Let plants reseed. Reseeded plants seem more drought-tolerant than transplants.
Trick #4: Make sure there's at least some clay in your soil (you probably don't want pure clay, though); it might not be good to add just any kind of clay, though (but our kind seems to help the soil stay moist underneath, as opposed to blocking the moisture out entirely).

There are other tricks, but those are some that come to mind.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I'd like to see Taxi crossed with something to raise its sugar content.

Ida Gold looks pretty similar and is said to be sweet (I'm not sure how sweet).

[Nan_PA_6b]

Originally Posted by shule1

Nan,

AlittleSalt was working on something like that (VHS Cherry). What do you mean by micro? Fruit size? Plant? Flowers?

You might try something like Tarasenko 2 x Ildi. I'm not sure what would be the best multiflora, but Ildi sounds good, except that you'd have to breed the yellow out of the cross if you wanted to stabilize it. There was an oxheart cherry I saw somewhere that looked pretty good, I think. I forgot what it was called, but I think it was already a hybrid.

Up to 12" high plant, fruit ideally about 1" give or take. I could give up the multiflora if necessary.
Oxheart cherry? Is it Tomatoberry? That's the only one I could find. And thank you for the suggestions.
I will name it Lorraine's Heart, after my mother. She's 86 and my good friend; we garden together.

Nan