Help - can someone ID this foliage disorder? (pics)

[dice]

Has that issue ever been discussed at any length?

I don't know, but I get the impression that different people
have seen it happen on their plants. There is a
characteristic roundish polka dot pattern of damage
afterward that gives it away.

If you have the weather for it, you could sacrifice a leaf
and test it for yourself. (Use kind of a coarse spray setting,
so that you get big droplets rather than a mist.)

[Eric02476]

Following up -- the problem is back and I was wrong about blaming spraying in full sun. The disease (or whatever) has returned even after I stopped spraying in full sun and removed all diseased branches. I'm maintaining a weekly Daconil regimen and aggressively removing (and trashing) new leaves that develop the disorder. The plants, both of the same variety and in Earthboxes, are still growing vigorously so perhaps they will outrun whatever it is.

I do notice that the spotting always begins with lower leaves and spreads upwards. Could that possibly indicate be some sort of physiologic problem? Or does that pattern definitively suggest a disease?

[dice]

You could take one plant, pick off all of the damaged leaves,
and not spray it with Daconil. If the problem still comes back
on that one, at least you know that your Daconil is not
contaminated with whatever is causing it.

[Eric02476]

Originally Posted by dice

You could take one plant, pick off all of the damaged leaves,
and not spray it with Daconil. If the problem still comes back
on that one, at least you know that your Daconil is not
contaminated with whatever is causing it.

A clever idea. I will do just that. Thanks, Dice.

[carolyn137]

I haven't been participating in this thread until now.

Eric, the fact that the problem starts on the lower leaves indicates to me that it's splashback infection from a pathogen that has been shed in a previous year. It's not a physiological problem with the soil.

Is this the first time you've seen this problem?

And I agree with most of what Suze said except Alternaria Stem Canker is found almost exclusively in CA.

Have you mentioned any stem lesions?

I'm assuming that you raised all your plants from seed yourself.

Grey Leaf Spot is another possibility but the fact that you treat with Daconil, see improvement and then things go south again makes me even wonder about any fungal infection.

And there's nothing all that special about Salmonella growing in Daconil, other than the current concern about Salmonella contamination which I'm pretty sure will turn out to be contamination with human excrement.

What I'm trying to say is that many Gram Negative BACTERIA could grow in Daconil and many other products we use as long as those products don't contain antibiotics with known action against Gram negative bacteria.

And yes, there was a long thread here about sun and moisture on leaves and burning holes or damaging leaves. Not really an issue as I recall for those who posted in that thread and I know I psoted there as well.

I think if I were you that at this point I'd contact my closest Cooperative Extension and either take in some samples or describe in detail what the problem is and ask what tomato diseases that look like that are present THIS YEAR in your area.

[Eric02476]

Carolyn, thank you so much for chiming in. Your posts in tomato forums over the years have taught me a great deal (particularly about the virtues of Daconil, which rescued me from chronic Early Blight!)

Your suggestion of a splashback pathogen does make sense. I am fairly certain that the problem appears after it rains, and it certainly does start with the lower leaves and move upward, with new growth healthy and otherwise unaffected. The affected leaves do eventually curl up, again in progression from the bottom of the plant upward -- if I let them get that far before pruning off.

I recently pruned off all affected leaves, but if it comes back I believe I will bring a sample to the extension agency for a local ID. But to answer your questions:

-- Yes, this is the first time I've seen this problem, but it's also the first time I've grown here -- we just moved to this house.

-- No stem lesions

-- No, I didn't start the plants from seed, but bought the seedlings from the reliable local, small grower I have used for years. Have never had any disease this early with any seedlings from them.

I just realized one more variable: By far the worst affected plants are Jet Stars. The Sun Golds and Black Cherrys were much less affected, and are in an EarthBox adjacent to the Jet Stars (and have the same potting mix source). Some Orange Blossom and Better Bush that were a bit farther away also showed the problem, but like the cherrys were able to shake it off with my pruning/spraying.

So all my plants showed some of the problem, but the Jet Stars are the only ones I haven't been able to control by pruning off infected stems and spraying Daconil. For what it's worth., it does seem like the Jet Stars are more vulnerable to the pathogen, whatever it is.

Regardless, it sounds like I'm doing all I can by keeping up with the Daconil (which I do regardless), pruning off diseased leaves, and observing. I'll let you all know what the Extension agency says if I get an ID from them.

Eric

[dice]

On further thought, the Daconil solution is not likely
the source of the problem. (When you spray it, you spray
the whole plant, so if the Daconil or the sprayer were
contaminated, it would not start on lower leaves first,
it would start on all leaves at the same time.)

Since you have been pruning off infected leaves for a
few weeks now, how high up are the lowest leaves
remaining on the pruned plants, just out of curiousity?

[Eric02476]

Dice,

Yeah I realized that too after Carolyn's post. The lowest leaves remaining are about 6" up from the bottom, and the affected plants are at least couple of feet high now. So far they do seem to be outrunning the problem and are flowering normally. It's just that the Jet Stars always seem to get the problem again, and suffer the worst leaf curling and wilting.

This weekend I did move the Jet Stars away from their spot beside the front lawn that we dug up and reseeded this spring (no herbicides applied, though). That's the nice thing about using EarthBoxes - they're mobile

It will be interesting to see if the disease returns in the Jet Star's new location after yesterday's storms -- they are now in the side yard. Granted, pathogens also know how to travel, so I shall assume nothing

[Eric02476]

Quick update -- a week after moving the affected plants to the other side of the house, pruning away all diseased foliage and continuing w/ the Daconil, they are disease-free. And it's been wet this week - almost 3 inches of rain.

So perhaps it was indeed something splashing up on the ground in their old location. Odd, because I have my sun golds and black cherrys in the old place, and they are not complaining. But I think they'd survive a nuclear winter, so that may not be saying much I shall remain vigilant, and thanks again to everyone. Great crowd here.

[HakaiRah]

For reference I noticed that after a week of steady overcast and rainy weather up here several of my tomatoes had a very similar looking pattern showing up on their leaves. I would note that as soon as the weather dried up it stopped showing up. I would also note that I haven't pruned off the damaged leaves, and the damage to them hasn't progressed either.

I'm not sure exactly what the problem is, but I inclined to think that it isn't fungal, bacterial, or viral in nature. I would guess that it is either some form of insect damage or just environmental. Overall the 'injured' plants have kept pace with the non-injured plants, and the fruits on the injured plants look fine.

I would also note that I haven't used any anti-fungals, pesticides, insecticides, etc. Just water and liquefied worm poop fertilizer.

[kdoble]

Eric,
I had been searching relentlessly for pix to help me identify possible foliar disease with my plants and finally I came across this thread ~ those pix you posted are identical to the condition of my plant leaves. At first I thought it was the dreaded TSWV, but after reading everyone's comments I'm beginning to think it's environmental, i.e., all the cloudy days we've had. At this point I have my fingers crossed and thinking to myself "now what?!". So I hope your plants are continuing to be healthy and producing lots of fruit. Hope you'll provide an update and help me keep the faith!

[Eric02476]

Thanks very much for the recent replies -- the affected plants are all now thriving with absolutely no sign of the foliage disorder. So, I am now also thinking that the likeliest scenario was indeed a physiological problem related to environmental conditions, specificaly our unusual run of cold, wet weather after setting out the plants. Obviously I cannot absolutely rule out a splashback pathogen since I did move them and also kept up with Daconil. But I wouldn't be surprised if a physiologic problem would also manifest itself on the lower leaves first (because they are older) and appear to spread upward as the younger, higher leaves age. So, kdoble, take heart and good luck!

Eric

[HakaiRah]

Originally Posted by Eric02476

Thanks very much for the recent replies -- the affected plants are all now thriving with absolutely no sign of the foliage disorder. So, I am now also thinking that the likeliest scenario was indeed a physiological problem related to environmental conditions, specificaly our unusual run of cold, wet weather after setting out the plants. Obviously I cannot absolutely rule out a splashback pathogen since I did move them and also kept up with Daconil. But I wouldn't be surprised if a physiologic problem would also manifest itself on the lower leaves first (because they are older) and appear to spread upward as the younger, higher leaves age. So, kdoble, take heart and good luck!

Eric

Did you recently add your location and zone to your profile? I don't remember it from my original post but that lends further credence to the theory that it was a temporary environmental factor for both of us and not anything serious.

On an even happier note one of my Black Cherry clusters started to blush this morning! (Also one of the plants with this issue)

[Eric02476]

Hi HakaiRah,

Yes, I believe I got a friendly "please put your zone in your profile" message early on. I'm in Arlington, Mass near Boston. So glad to hear your plants are doing well. My Sun Golds and Black Cherrys are sure to blush soon, and I can't wait. How long do they take from first blush to being ready to eat? I forget!

[Tomaddict]

Eric,
I want to throw out another possibility for the cause of this problem. Coincidentally I just minutes ago returned from a lecture by a researcher who has been part of a large effort examining the impact of elevated ozone and carbon dioxide levels on northern hardwood forests. The photos he showed of ozone damage to leaves (of both trees and smaller plants on the forest floor) are very similar to the pictures you provided in your first post. He also noted during the presentation that ozone was more damaging during wet weather, because the stoma (pores in leaves) are open wider, and so gases have more impact than during dry and/or warmer weather when the stoma are closed or barely open.

So, do you leave in or near an urban environment, or downwind from an industrial area? (BTW, I happen to live in SW Michigan, not near an urban environment, but we're 100 or so miles downwind from the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor and so SW Michigan is on average one of the higher ozone areas in the country... but I have not noticed this sort of problem with my 'maters or other garden plants).

So I have no idea if this is the real cause, but just wanted to mention it as a possibility that hadn't been suggested yet.