Paper Towel Method - much faster - Page 4

habitat_gardener · March 3, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis

I have never seen a professional nursery grower use all these random methods. Usually it's straight by the book, seeds into soilless seed starter mix of some sort packed into plug trays, and down the rows they go. Is there any particular reason to pre-sprout sprouts and then transfer them into a sprouting mix?

I'd guess nursery growers are planting hundreds or thousands of seeds at a time and don't have time to transfer individual sprouted seedlings to cells. As others have noted, I'd use this method if I had a few seeds and wanted to make sure I got a plant, but if I were planting multiples, it'd never get done if I added these extra steps.

dice · March 3, 2011

Quote:

I assume this means the mold is bad for the seeds?

It could be for the seedlings. I generally wet the coffee filters
or paper towels with the same hydrogen peroxide dilution
(10 parts water to 1 part 3% hydrogen peroxide) that I use
to discourage damping off in seed-starting cells. If seeds are
old enough that I think a 24 hour pre-soak in weak tea water
or very dilute nitrate fertilizer of some kind might help, I do
that first, but I still use the hydrogen peroxide solution to
moisten the paper towel or coffee filter before putting them
in the baggie. I leave the baggie sealed for the first 24 hours,
then open it, so some moisture can evaporate. (If the seeds
are really slow, that can require re-moistening it a time or two
before they sprout.)

It is about time for my annual retry with the Guido seeds. I have
this one small packet that I got in a trade. The first year, I just
put them in seed-starting cells along with almost everything else.
No sprouts. Last year I soaked 5 or so in water for 24 hours and
then into a paper towel in a baggie. After 6 weeks, no sprouts.
This year, I am going to try the weak tea water and then the
baggie.

RayR · March 3, 2011

Ya, it would be labor intensive for a nursery grower or a large scale gardener.
It is the best way to test the viability of seeds that you may have concerns about and is a fantastic method to get cool weather crops started fast, like peas. Peas will sprout in only 4 days using this method where they would take much longer if they were planted directly outside in cool soil.

travis · March 3, 2011

I've used the paper towel method to test germinate seeds, but never to sprout and transfer. Seems a bit obsessive to me.

RayR · March 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis

I've used the paper towel method to test germinate seeds, but never to sprout and transfer. Seems a bit obsessive to me.

When you have a shorter growing season like up here in the north, you learn ways to overcome that limitation. Pre-spouting can give as much a 2 week earlier harvest on some spring crops. For the Peas and Fava I grow it works great, I can plant sprouted seeds in mid-March when most people up here don't even think about planting their seed in the garden until April.
Some folks here pre-sprout peppers and eggplant which I'm been playing around with and so far I like the results. They do germinate faster which I hope will result in more mature transplants and an earlier and longer harvest.

ireilly · March 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis

I have never seen a professional nursery grower use all these random methods. Usually it's straight by the book, seeds into soilless seed starter mix of some sort packed into plug trays, and down the rows they go. Is there any particular reason to pre-sprout sprouts and then transfer them into a sprouting mix?

Can't speak for the others but I do like seeing which ones germinate and which do not. Some seed is old and some is new. This is a new method for me this year anyway.

Maybe it does induce trauma that the seed or seedling would not undergo otherwise.

You will admit it does keep the seed hydrated, somewhat of a surrogate for a long soak. Or a drowning if too much water.

But I think you said it yourself, a professional nursery grower. I'm obviously not one.

Don't have those resources anyway.

ireilly · March 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

....
It is about time for my annual retry with the Guido seeds. I have
this one small packet that I got in a trade. The first year, I just
put them in seed-starting cells along with almost everything else.
No sprouts. Last year I soaked 5 or so in water for 24 hours and
then into a paper towel in a baggie. After 6 weeks, no sprouts.
This year, I am going to try the weak tea water and then the
baggie.

Have you read the books published by Norman Deno about germination? They are up on the USDA website. He has ceased publishing them and these are PDFs of his work.

I link through the J L Hudson website as it has the persistent links to the USDA site.

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/Germination.htm

Hope your seeds germinate this year. I even tried some cold stratification on some old ones I had to see if it would help their low germination rates. Interesting stuff.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

**carolyn137** · March 4, 2011

Ray, I am up north way to your East in NYS, zone 5 most years, and I've never used paper towels, baggies or anything else and have been able to germinate seeds very well without any pre-sprouting at all. And grown several thousands of varieties that way.

I know the seed age of what I'm working with. For seeds less than about 5 yo I just sow the seeds in artificial mix and they come up and I have to thin.

For seeds about 5-12 years old I just double sow and thin where needed.

For seeds beyond 12 yo and they're rare hard to find varieties then I do the following to either boost up germination or wake up seeds that are currently non-viable.

Soak the seeds for a day in water to which a pinch of blue stuff like MG or Peters is added, or for those who grow organic a few drops of either fish or seaweed. Stir from time to time to be sure the seeds sink since old seeds are dehydrated.

Double sow those seeds and water with the same solution you used to soak the seeds in, but fresh, not what you used for soaking.

My current record is waking up 22 yo seeds of September Dawn and the documented record is waking up seeds 50 yo that had just been stored in a file cabinet.

On some seed packs there's a packed by date and that's what it is, not the date that the seeds were produced. In Euope they have a best used by date on the pack.

Some of us have found that seeds for heart varieties lose viability quicker than non-hearts.

So no paper towels for me, or coffee filters or whatever, and to date I've been able to germinate any seeds I want to with just a few exceptions.

dice · March 4, 2011

Quote:

Have you read the books published by Norman Deno about germination?

I may have. (I read a lot of research on germination turned
up by a WWW search a couple of years ago.)

The weak tea water soak idea came from HoosierCherokee's
description at GW of how he sprouted Mozark seeds from 1964
from University of Missouri. (Weak tea water for 24 hours,
followed by two weeks in paper towels in an open baggie at
about 80F ambient temperature.)

RayR · March 4, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Ray, I am up north way to your East in NYS, zone 5 most years, and I've never used paper towels, baggies or anything else and have been able to germinate seeds very well without any pre-sprouting at all. And grown several thousands of varieties that way.

Carolyn, I'm not saying that I have had problems germinating seeds the conventional way. I don't have a huge garden, so I like to make best use of the space I have whether in-ground or in containers. i have mostly done pre-sprouting with direct seeded cool season crops. I have also done it with bush beans and pole beans later in the spring.

I think the main advantages of pre-sprouting certain direct seeded vegetables are:
1.) Most all seeds will germinate much faster and more reliably in warm conditions indoors than direct seeded in cold spring soil outdoors in our climate.
2.) You can avoid the inevitable blank spaces in your beds due to some seed not sprouting because they were just duds or because they succumbed to rot or critters outdoors.

dice · March 4, 2011

There was a variety that I had one 10-year-old seed of. One
seed. I did not want to put it in a flat of seed-starting cells
along with other seeds that might sprout a lot faster. So I
sprouted it in a wet paper towel in a baggie. It took 2-3 weeks,
but it sprouted. I transplanted it, the seedling survived, the
plant survived the summer, and I saved seeds.

All good.

That does not mean that I would do the same thing with
a thousand Rutgers seeds for a plant sale or something like
that. Or even with my one and only Yellow Pear seed (I could
simply order a packet of those somewhere and start them
normally in seed-starting cells).

But if I am down to my last few seeds of "Uncle Rodney's
Best Tomato Ever" or something like that, a pre-soak and
a wet paper towel or coffee filter in a baggie is a reasonable
approach to keeping careful track of something that is not
easily replaced.

Alpinejs · March 29, 2011

I hope this thread isn't too old to bring a response, but as a newbie, I don't quite
follow the paper towel method. First, do I dampen two paper towels or coffee
filters with several seeds inbetween? Put them in a ziplock bag? Now, I envision
a seed with a squirmy root formed and a wanna-be stem. What do I do with this
fragile thing. Put the root part in soil and hope the stem part gets enough
vitamins from the root to stand up? I guess what I really need is a more detailed
description of this fascinating germination system.

svalli · March 29, 2011

As soon as I see a tiny white root sticking out from the seed, I take a toothpick and use it to carefully transfer the seed onto moist potting mix. Then I carefully cover the seed with just 1 mm of soil and use a spray bottle to wet it.

dice · March 29, 2011

That is how I do it, too. I use a single paper towel (or this year,
coffee filters) folded over so it will fit inside a sandwich bag.
I dip it in about .3% hydrogen peroxide solution to moisten it.
I place seeds on the paper, fold it over them, and slip it into
the baggie. If they are kind of old, 5 years or more, I will leave
the baggie closed for the first 24 hours, then open it.

I put the baggie in a warm place, a couple of feet from
a furnace register in my case, and I check it daily to see
if any of the seeds have sprouted. As soon as any root
appears, I transfer that seed into a seed-starting cell
(or 3-4" pot with a half-inch of seed-starting mix on top
of potting mix). There is not enough time from when
the root breaks through the seed coat to when it lands
in seed-starting mix for it to have grown any stem yet.

(And I do have a Guido sprout this year, finally. Only 1 out
of 8 seeds sprouted, but the seedling looks healthy, and
one is all that I need to see how it grows, see what it tastes
like, and save more seeds.)

lumierefrere · March 29, 2011

I use damp coffee filters in a baggie. I didn't use to but now I do. Paper towels are too porous and the root winds its way into the fibers. I can see what's sprouted in 3 days and know if I have to take further action. My garden is so minimal this isn't a big deal effort-wise and I don't do it for seeds other than tomatoes.

March 4, 2011	#53
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Ray, I am up north way to your East in NYS, zone 5 most years, and I've never used paper towels, baggies or anything else and have been able to germinate seeds very well without any pre-sprouting at all. And grown several thousands of varieties that way. I know the seed age of what I'm working with. For seeds less than about 5 yo I just sow the seeds in artificial mix and they come up and I have to thin. For seeds about 5-12 years old I just double sow and thin where needed. For seeds beyond 12 yo and they're rare hard to find varieties then I do the following to either boost up germination or wake up seeds that are currently non-viable. Soak the seeds for a day in water to which a pinch of blue stuff like MG or Peters is added, or for those who grow organic a few drops of either fish or seaweed. Stir from time to time to be sure the seeds sink since old seeds are dehydrated. Double sow those seeds and water with the same solution you used to soak the seeds in, but fresh, not what you used for soaking. My current record is waking up 22 yo seeds of September Dawn and the documented record is waking up seeds 50 yo that had just been stored in a file cabinet. On some seed packs there's a packed by date and that's what it is, not the date that the seeds were produced. In Euope they have a best used by date on the pack. Some of us have found that seeds for heart varieties lose viability quicker than non-hearts. So no paper towels for me, or coffee filters or whatever, and to date I've been able to germinate any seeds I want to with just a few exceptions. __________________ Carolyn

March 4, 2011	#56
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	There was a variety that I had one 10-year-old seed of. One seed. I did not want to put it in a flat of seed-starting cells along with other seeds that might sprout a lot faster. So I sprouted it in a wet paper towel in a baggie. It took 2-3 weeks, but it sprouted. I transplanted it, the seedling survived, the plant survived the summer, and I saved seeds. All good. That does not mean that I would do the same thing with a thousand Rutgers seeds for a plant sale or something like that. Or even with my one and only Yellow Pear seed (I could simply order a packet of those somewhere and start them normally in seed-starting cells). But if I am down to my last few seeds of "Uncle Rodney's Best Tomato Ever" or something like that, a pre-soak and a wet paper towel or coffee filter in a baggie is a reasonable approach to keeping careful track of something that is not easily replaced. __________________ -- alias

March 29, 2011	#58
svalli Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vaasa, Finland, latitude N 63° Posts: 838	As soon as I see a tiny white root sticking out from the seed, I take a toothpick and use it to carefully transfer the seed onto moist potting mix. Then I carefully cover the seed with just 1 mm of soil and use a spray bottle to wet it. __________________ "I only want to live in peace, plant potatoes and dream." - Moomin-troll by Tove Jansson

March 29, 2011	#59
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	That is how I do it, too. I use a single paper towel (or this year, coffee filters) folded over so it will fit inside a sandwich bag. I dip it in about .3% hydrogen peroxide solution to moisten it. I place seeds on the paper, fold it over them, and slip it into the baggie. If they are kind of old, 5 years or more, I will leave the baggie closed for the first 24 hours, then open it. I put the baggie in a warm place, a couple of feet from a furnace register in my case, and I check it daily to see if any of the seeds have sprouted. As soon as any root appears, I transfer that seed into a seed-starting cell (or 3-4" pot with a half-inch of seed-starting mix on top of potting mix). There is not enough time from when the root breaks through the seed coat to when it lands in seed-starting mix for it to have grown any stem yet. (And I do have a Guido sprout this year, finally. Only 1 out of 8 seeds sprouted, but the seedling looks healthy, and one is all that I need to see how it grows, see what it tastes like, and save more seeds.) __________________ -- alias

March 3, 2011	#48
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Ya, it would be labor intensive for a nursery grower or a large scale gardener. It is the best way to test the viability of seeds that you may have concerns about and is a fantastic method to get cool weather crops started fast, like peas. Peas will sprout in only 4 days using this method where they would take much longer if they were planted directly outside in cool soil.

March 3, 2011	#49
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	I've used the paper towel method to test germinate seeds, but never to sprout and transfer. Seems a bit obsessive to me.

March 29, 2011	#57
Alpinejs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Alpine, Calif. in winter. Sandpoint Lake, Ont. Canada summers Posts: 850	I hope this thread isn't too old to bring a response, but as a newbie, I don't quite follow the paper towel method. First, do I dampen two paper towels or coffee filters with several seeds inbetween? Put them in a ziplock bag? Now, I envision a seed with a squirmy root formed and a wanna-be stem. What do I do with this fragile thing. Put the root part in soil and hope the stem part gets enough vitamins from the root to stand up? I guess what I really need is a more detailed description of this fascinating germination system.

March 29, 2011	#60
lumierefrere Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Zone 4 NY Posts: 772	I use damp coffee filters in a baggie. I didn't use to but now I do. Paper towels are too porous and the root winds its way into the fibers. I can see what's sprouted in 3 days and know if I have to take further action. My garden is so minimal this isn't a big deal effort-wise and I don't do it for seeds other than tomatoes.