Dehybridizing a Japanese green pepper

dokutaaguriin · March 22, 2009

I would like to find an op alternative to a standard Japanese green pepper (thin walled, intense green pepper flavour, not sweet like a bell).

1. How many generations before I can stabilize it? Is it similar to dehybridizing a tomato?

2. Is there hybrid vigor in F1 peppers that will be lost in subsequent generations?

I started some seeds saved from last year's crop to compare with the F1. It seems the plants are slightly smaller at this stage of growth.

Jeff

Polar_Lace · March 22, 2009

I really don't know the answer to your question; but I really want to tell you that I bought one of these books recently: Peppers of the world, By Dave DeWitt, Paul W. Bosland you can see here why I was so interested in it. (A book preview.)

Maybe you would find it to be interesting too.

~* Robin

**nctomatoman** · March 22, 2009

Hey Jeff - I've worked a bit with dehybridizing peppers, but the answer really depends. Since all peppers end up some other color than green when ripe, that green Japanese pepper that you are aiming for is yet to ripen and seeds from green fruit will not germinate. Since you have plants up and growing, you probably saved seeds from red fruit??? As far as what you would get - it all depends. There is no guarantee you will replicate the hybrid in any subsequent generation. I've found you don't really lose vigor - OP peppers are just as vigorous in my experience. You will want to plant as many of the F2 as you can to get as wide a range of possibilities. Yes it is very much like working with tomatoes.

What is the name of the variety you are working with?

dokutaaguriin · March 22, 2009

HI Craig,
Thanks for the info. 　
Last year, I let one pepper ripen to red and then dried it whole.
Will it be stabilized by F6? How do you prevent cross pollination in peppers? (isolation??)

My goal is to hopefully find the same type of thin walled, small, prolific pepper. I have about 12 plants up and growing. I have 8 spots for them in the garden but am rethinking this....I will squeeze in all 12 some how.
The Japanese pepper is called KYOYUTAKA.

Hi Robin,
Thanks for the link. It looks very interesting!!!

Jeff

**nctomatoman** · March 22, 2009

Jeff, Best way is either to grow them in pots and spread around your area so that none are near other peppers - or cage the plants and drape Reemay over them as they are blossoming. You can also just save seed from the first few set fruit (or prior to bee activity) - or late fruit, once the bees become much less active.

As far as when they are stable, all depends upon what sort of variety you see - you will learn an awful lot in the F2 growout...then share what you get (info, not the seeds!) and we can take it from there!

**mdvpc** · March 23, 2009

Boy that looks tasty!

organichris · March 25, 2009

This is a bit of conjecture due to my lack of experience in saving pepper seeds, etc., but I would say that once you get to F6 you should be good. Probably by F4 you'd pretty much be stable.

dokutaaguriin · August 22, 2009

Here is a pic of the F1 (at the top of the picture) and and the various sizes and shapes found in the F2 fruit:

**mdvpc** · August 22, 2009

Jeff:

Great photo! Next Spring I have to join in on your project. I didnt this year, and I apologize for that, but next year I will.

dokutaaguriin · August 22, 2009

No Problem, Michael. I hope you have straighten out your water issues.
I was quite surprised by the variety of fruit that came out of the F2 plants. There is one plant that I think comes close to the F1. I will also save some seed from another F1 hybrid called Kyo Midori.

Jeff

**mdvpc** · August 22, 2009

Jeff-am working on it! My business partner had to re drill his wells because the water he was pumping was still full of salt. been a real experience figuring this out. what I have learned is that the things I am growing are salt-tolerant except for tomatoes!

March 22, 2009	#1
dokutaaguriin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Z3a Posts: 905	Dehybridizing a Japanese green pepper I would like to find an op alternative to a standard Japanese green pepper (thin walled, intense green pepper flavour, not sweet like a bell). 1. How many generations before I can stabilize it? Is it similar to dehybridizing a tomato? 2. Is there hybrid vigor in F1 peppers that will be lost in subsequent generations? I started some seeds saved from last year's crop to compare with the F1. It seems the plants are slightly smaller at this stage of growth. Jeff

March 22, 2009	#2
Polar_Lace Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Z8b, Texas Posts: 657	I really don't know the answer to your question; but I really want to tell you that I bought one of these books recently: Peppers of the world, By Dave DeWitt, Paul W. Bosland you can see here why I was so interested in it. (A book preview.) Maybe you would find it to be interesting too. ~* Robin __________________ It's not how many seeds you sow. Nor how many plants you transplant. It's about how many of them can survive your treatment of them.

March 22, 2009	#3
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Hey Jeff - I've worked a bit with dehybridizing peppers, but the answer really depends. Since all peppers end up some other color than green when ripe, that green Japanese pepper that you are aiming for is yet to ripen and seeds from green fruit will not germinate. Since you have plants up and growing, you probably saved seeds from red fruit??? As far as what you would get - it all depends. There is no guarantee you will replicate the hybrid in any subsequent generation. I've found you don't really lose vigor - OP peppers are just as vigorous in my experience. You will want to plant as many of the F2 as you can to get as wide a range of possibilities. Yes it is very much like working with tomatoes. What is the name of the variety you are working with? __________________ Craig

March 22, 2009	#5
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Jeff, Best way is either to grow them in pots and spread around your area so that none are near other peppers - or cage the plants and drape Reemay over them as they are blossoming. You can also just save seed from the first few set fruit (or prior to bee activity) - or late fruit, once the bees become much less active. As far as when they are stable, all depends upon what sort of variety you see - you will learn an awful lot in the F2 growout...then share what you get (info, not the seeds!) and we can take it from there! __________________ Craig

March 23, 2009	#6
mdvpc Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 4,386	Boy that looks tasty! __________________ Michael

March 25, 2009	#7
organichris Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 630	This is a bit of conjecture due to my lack of experience in saving pepper seeds, etc., but I would say that once you get to F6 you should be good. Probably by F4 you'd pretty much be stable.

August 22, 2009	#8
dokutaaguriin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alberta, Canada Z3a Posts: 905	Here is a pic of the F1 (at the top of the picture) and and the various sizes and shapes found in the F2 fruit: