My latest disease problem

[mdvpc]

I have had real issues the last year-photos of my latest problem. My tomatoes, eggplant, hot and sweet peppers and cukes are all in the same containers, with the same potting medium and fertilized the same way. Everything is doing great except the tomatoes. Our salt content is very high in our water. There is also a pepper virus in the valley now, but my peppers are unaffected.

Intersted in any ideas.

[dice]

Salt damage:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/p...leaf/salt.html

(I have seen better pictures, of the whole plant, but I do
not remember where exactly.)

Salinity and plants, overview and some notes on mechanisms
within the plant (includes section on measurement of soil
salinity):

http://www.plantstress.com/Articles/index.asp

(The parent site of the above is a generally useful research
resource on plant "stresses":

http://www.plantstress.com/Articles/index.asp
)

Silicon and salt mitigation factoid:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...eed7594ad54256

"Silicon and Abiotic Stress":

http://www.hodsons.org/MartinHodson/silabiostress.htm

In a soil, "silicon deficiency" would be an absurd notion
(clay and sand are mostly silicon), but in container mix
it is possible. I seem to recall yarrow as a relatively rich
source of silicon, so a tea of fermented yarrow plant material
might be one way to boost it.

There is a commercial product, too, Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt,
that has potassium and silicon:

http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/70...ent--1-qt-.htm

Most hydroponic supply places have it.

Not directly relevant, but everything you ever wanted to know
about plant nutrition:

http://www.progressivegardens.com/gr.../plantnut.html

[mdvpc]

Dice-Thanks for your post-I will review your links tonight after supper.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by mdvpc

Dice-Thanks for your post-I will review your links tonight after supper.

Michael, I do think I remember you posting about this last year and I don't think I answered at that time. I must admit that possible salt damage of tomato plants is not something I know much about.

But I reviewed Dice's links, I then did Google iMAGES and then did my own Google search on tomato salt damage and it looks to me that that's what might be going on.

And Dice has linked to the best sites above.

You've been using the gro-bags for many years now and I don't remember you bringing this up until last year.

Do you use fresh mix in the bags each year ?

What I really need to do, or someone does, is to check out salt damage damage to your other veggies that aren't affected to see what the difference might be between them and tomatoes.

And you could possibly check out your thesis by growing a salt tolerant tomato variety or two. I know they exist but I don't know if they're offered to the public b;c I didn't check that out either.

[mdvpc]

Carolyn-Thanks for your post.

I do change completely the mix in the grow bags each year-last year was the first time that this suspicious for salt damage occurred.

I didnt know there were salt-resistant varieties-I will check that out as well as checking out whether or not eggplant/peppers/chile/garlic/lettuces that I also grow, and am growing now, are resistant to water with high salt content.

I am going to plant this weekend 3 containers of new yorker that I have already germinated-5 gallons each, 1 plant each-first container will be watered only with reverse osmosis water, second with regular drip system but using clearex once a week, the third will be watered with regular drip system like the containers in the photo-if its the salt content of the water, the third should do poorly, the second should do better,and the first should do fine.

We shall see.

Very distressing. Thanks for your help.

[aninocentangel]

Just a thought. I don't know what the grow bags are made out of, if they're porous, or if you reuse them, but you might consider giving them a thorough scrubbing and soaking them to maybe dissolve any built up salts?

[mdvpc]

Floradade is supposedly a salt tolerant variety. Only one I can find so far. Still looking.

[dice]

I do wonder why your other veggies would not show it, whether
the problem is the salt in your water or some mineral deficiency.
I do not know whether they are more salt-tolerant than the
average tomato plant, but my hunch would be that at least
some of them should also be affected. (The damage simply
did not look particularly like anything else at first glance.)

Maybe they need less silicon than a tomato plant to mitigage
the salt content, being smaller plants, and whatever silicon
is in your container mix is therefore enough for them but not
for a tomato plant?

If it turns out not to be the salt that is doing it, then it becomes
a hard problem, because there are so many possibilities.

[amideutch]

Michael, did you ever get some of the plants tissue analyzed at NMSU like we talked about on a previous thread. I think you said they were right down the road from you. Ami

[mdvpc]

Ami-I didnt do that. Got so busy with my practice. Plants looked great until about 2 weeks ago.

Anino-I do reuse the grow bags-before they are filled with the new mix, they are scrubbed out with a brush and bleach solution. I have been doing this for years.

Dice-the peppers, eggplant and cukes are not affected at all. All had the same mix, amendments, fert, everything.

[carolyn137]

Growing New Yorker are you?

My heart is going thump thump that you recognize my pplace of residence.

if you can't find the salt toleranct varieties let me know b'c I think I may have access to some that are used commercially but aren't available elsewhere. Not a promise but just a possibility.

To wit, I know someone who spent two years in Israel on a post doc and he's now back and at Cold Spring Harbor, and salt tolerant varieties are used in Israel since the ground water there is salty in nature.

Several years ago Craig and Glenn Drowns and I sent him about 1000 varieties for his research in Israel, and while his grant did pay for some, mainly Glenn's which were all less than 2 yo Craig and I had sent seeds that were much older, sooooooo maybe he can help.

To be more specific, the whole group of Desert Sweet tomatoes that are exported to Europe and the US as on the vine ones are germinated in sweet water and then grown on with the salty ground water.

[mdvpc]

Carolyn-I was a studio musician and songwriter living in the Village (You know what village I mean) from about 67 to 70 so I feel close to New York and surrounding areas-reason why I picked New Yorker for this trial.

I am getting ready to purchase a 100-150 gallon per day reverse osmosis system to put my drip system on. I found out from one of my business partners that El Paso has the largest inland desalination plant in the world-guess what? Its not even being used. Because we are harvesting so much brackish water now for our needs, the saline content has gone up remarkably.

And another grower here in El Paso just emailed me about his problems with his plants-I sent him the 4 photos I posted and asked him if his plants looked like that-the answer was yes.

and my same business partner, who owns a winery here in El Paso looked at the photos and without any prompting from me said it was salt damage. He has spent $25k to filter the salt from his drip system for the winery with a sand filter and it works, but not that good.

The only salt tolerant variety I have found for purchase is floradade from Victory. I read last night about the Israeli experience, but could not access any commercial sources for varieties. I would be forever in your debt if you could put me in touch with, or obtain for me some samples to try.

additionally, I am getting the leaf and stems tested by a lab that the winery uses for their testing.

Let me know if you can help.

All the best.

[dice]

The cuke would certainly not be a smaller plant than a tomato
plant by any standard that I can think of, but it may be natively
more salt-tolerant (more efficient in its uptake of silicon and
potassium, perhaps).

[mdvpc]

Dice-Agree, but my peppers and eggplant are very big plants-not as big as some of the tomatoes-indeterminates-but my determinate dwarves or nearly dwarf are affected as much-the plant size doesnt seem to be the factor here.

[dice]

Actually I was misremembering about the yarrow and silicon.

Horsetail was the ingredient of a custom organic fertilizer
that was mentioned as being in high in silicon (it had yarrow,
too, but probably for other reasons than high silicon content).

We can always find horsetail around here, but I don't know how
plentiful it may be in the Southwest. One might find it down
along river banks. (It is really hard to get rid of, too, once you
have it, so planting it to have some around is not
recommended.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsetail

If you found some, you could mash it up with water in
a blender, add some molasses, strain it, and both spray
it on and soil drench with it (molasses is both a chelating
agent and a potassium source, provides carbohydrates to
feed beneficial bacteria, some other trace elements, etc).

Just a suggestion for the plants that are already stressed.