Actinovate and mycorrhizae

[fortyonenorth]

Has anyone done side-by-side comparisons of using mycorrhizae with and without simultaneous application of Actinovate? I ask this because it seems like Actinovate (when applied as a root drench) is working in opposition to the mycorrhizae. Would it make more sense to apply the Actinovate first and then inoculate with mycorrhizae several days later? Or, alternately, limit Actinovate to foliar application if you're also using mycorrhizae?

Ray, Ami and others - you have much more knowledge in this area than I, so I'd be really interested in your feedback.

[rnewste]

I leave a 2 week interval between applications of these products. No "scientific" reason - - just my gut telling me to do this.

Raybo

[amideutch]

MycoGrow Soluable has the same type bacteria (Streptomyces lydicus) in it's ingredients as Actinovate. The only difference is Actinovate's strain is different from that of MG. Fungi and Bacteria work together in the Rhizophere and in Actinovates case this strain of bacteria targets the bad guys and not the good ones. Just like using Actinovate and Exel LG together as a foliar fungicide, the phosphorous acid in Exel LG does not affect the Streptomyces lydicus in Actinovate.

Ami

[fortyonenorth]

Thank you both for your comments. That's reassuring. I looked at my packet of MycoGrow Soluble and it does not list Streptomyces lydicus among it's many ingredients. But I see the Fungi Perfecti website has it listed. I just got mine in the Fall, so I assume it's just an omission rather than a reformulation.

[korney19]

What is the highest NPK that can be used with those two, specifically P I guess?

Hate to see someone use those plus a commercial fert and have it kill them....

[amideutch]

As long as the "P" isn't over 5-6 you should be OK. Ami

[korney19]

Originally Posted by amideutch

As long as the "P" isn't over 5-6 you should be OK. Ami

I think that's the problem. Many are double digits. The only thing I have under that is Maxicrop seaweed powder which I think is around 1-0-7 or 1-0-4? I use it to sprout seeds.

All the MG, Peters, Shultz, Plantex stuff is over 8 I think except a few which are designed to be used with Phosphoric Acid as the P source.

Thanks Ted.

(for my seeds too.)

[rnewste]

I would recommend using TomatoTone (3-4-6) as this will be a safe bet with your Mycos.

Raybo

[fortyonenorth]

Originally Posted by amideutch

As long as the "P" isn't over 5-6 you should be OK. Ami

Is the "P" consideration only with regard to newly applied ferts? Most decent garden soils have considerably more "P" than that in the soil already. I've read that garden soil that has been continually amended with compost and/or manure (over a number of years) could have the equivalent of thousands of pounds of P per acre in store.

[fortyonenorth]

taking this a bit further....

Is this "P" sensitivity simply because the plant has no biological reason to form this symbiotic relationship in conditions where nutrients are adequate?

It seems like mycorrhizae inoculation is particularly beneficial in container mixes (i.e. sterilized mixes) and on less than ideal soils. I'd be interested in evaluations of mycorrhizae inoculation on very good, biologically active soils. Is there marked improvement in quality and yield?

On a side note, now that the probiotic market is gaining traction, I see some evidence of mycorrhizae being marketed as a "cure all." I was at the garden center yesterday and saw a bag of blueberry/azalea/rhododendron fertilizer (major brand) with added endo/ecto mycorrhizae. These are among that 5% of plants which have shown no response whatsoever to endo/ecto mycorrhizae.

[amideutch]

Is this "P" sensitivity simply because the plant has no biological reason to form this symbiotic relationship in conditions where nutrients are adequate?

That is one of the reasons. Depending on the amount of "P" in the soil it can keep the symbiotic relationship from happening. They have found the use of mycorrhiza/bacteria in hydroponic systems has increased plant vigor and production. By controlling the "P" of the nutrient solution and allowing symbiosis to occur the nutrient intake of the plants increases even though the ferts used in the nutrient solution are inorganic/ionic.

More and more were finding that Arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi are not the only players in the rhizosphere where plant roots are growing. You have PGPR (Plant-Growth-Promoting-Rhizobacteria) that act as biofertilizers and biopesticdes. You are seeing them added to Myco products such as MycoGrow Soluable or as stand alone products like Biota Max. They have also found that these Myco/bacteria teams work together whether it be providing nutrients for the plant or fighting the bad guys that reside in the soil one example being Tricoderma and Mycorrhiza.

My reason for my seedling plant dip was to get all these players together and inoculate the plants in one application so they can be doing there thing from the git-go as a biofertilizer or a biopesticide.

A new product on the market that Raybo mentioned is "Great White Mycorrhiza" which is a good example of an all-in-one product that has Mycorrhiza,PGPR and Tricoderma plus vitamins. Feedback on this product has been very favorable. Right now it's running around $30.00 for 4oz. Here's a discription of the product.

Great White is the most advanced mycorrhizal product on the market today. The combination of mycorrhizae, beneficial bacteria, trichoderma, and plant vitamins will give your plants a strong and developed root system. This will enable your plants to break down and absorb nutrients efficiently and effectively. Also it will increase water uptake and the overall absorption area of the root system, resulting in a healthier plant. Can be used in hydroponics as well as soil. May also be injected in to media.

Ami

[John3]

May also be injected in to media.

Ami can you explain this for me?

[BigdaddyJ]

Ami, first, thanx for answering my PM Question which you just answered here again on the board.

Now, one last Q? After your dip, do you plant your starts immediately into theit final growing spot? That's what I was planning on doing but will reconsider if you advise otherwise. I was then going to take the remaining fluid in the bucket and drench a little around the now planted plants. I have 25 plants and they will be planted in the garden, no containers, within the next week. TIA

[rnewste]

This is the Great White that Ami spoke of:



Heck, I'd buy it - just for the "fun" package!

Raybo

[creister]

Big Daddy,

I followed Ami's dip method, and then poured the remaining dip solution onto each plant. When I planted, I dipped the plant in the solution of 1/4 biota max tablet, 2 teaspoons of mycogrow, 2 teaspoons of actinovate, and 1oz. of molasses in 1 gallon of water. I just stuck the plant still in the pot into the dip, let it soak about 10 second count, let plant drain over bucket of dip, and plant. They are all looking great and doing great. That includes my squash i did the same way.