I need a Forensic Dentist...

shlacm · July 12, 2011

Does anyone know what kind of teeth made these:

bite.jpg bite2.jpg bite3.jpg

I'm hoping groundhog... otherwise I have more pests to contend with than I thought!

jeremyhilton · July 12, 2011

Woah that's crazy, I can't imagine what would eat green tomatoes straight off the vine. Good luck with your search for the culprit...

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ContainerTed · July 12, 2011

Looks like it's time for some Groundhog Stew. Deer usually don't leave that much and the teeth marks look very rodent family like.

shlacm · July 12, 2011

Yeah, no way it's deer... this this has "hands!"

I think that was a Cherokee Purple tomato, so it was VERY green!!!

fortyonenorth · July 12, 2011

Are you sure it isn't a hornworm? They're certainly capable of the damage shown in your photograph and much more.

bcday · July 12, 2011

I second the hornworm idea. They love to chew on green tomato fruits as well as the leaves. Given the small size of the tomato the hornworm might not be very big yet, maybe only an inch long, and they do blend in very well with the tomato stems so you'd have to look closely to find it.

If you have larger fruits getting ripe in the garden it's hard to believe that a groundhog would pass those up in favor of a tiny one like this which doesn't look like it's even an inch in diameter. Were the fruits on any other plants eaten? And if you found this fruit on or near the ground, a slug could have chewed that hole.

Garf · July 12, 2011

Spray with BT and see what happens.

shlacm · July 12, 2011

I won't say there are no hornworms! However, the clear toothmark on either side of the missing/bitten-off part suggest to me that it was nothing of the worm-variety... I know that groundhogs have been chewing on my garden as I saw one scurry away one evening when I arrived (the fence is now on 24 hours a day!).

Suze · July 12, 2011

Hornworms can cause a LOT of damage and eat a shocking amount of plant material (usually foliage, but sometimes fruits too) relative to their size. Although the damage you've posted looks more like something with "teeth", I would not completely rule out hornworms either. In any case the damage you show definitely isn't birds.

Want an easy answer as to what might be causing the damage? Set out a havaheart trap or two, bait it with apple slices + a little peanut butter smeared on the slices.

If it's hornworms, obviously they won't make their way to the trap (and I also doubt they are into apple slices, LOL) - but if squirrels, opossoms, groundchucks, woodchucks, then they will.

Gobig_or_Gohome_toms · July 12, 2011

Is there the tell tale sign of worm poop on the leaves below that fruit?

Craig

Suze · July 12, 2011

Excellent point by Go Big - are you seeing any frass/worm poop?

if it's hornworms that are doing this rather extensive damage to your plants, I would think that you'll definitely see some major frass/worm droppings on the leaves or at the least below on the mulch if you take a close look.

bcday · July 12, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlacm

(the fence is now on 24 hours a day!).

If it's a hornworm, having the fence on won't help.

ContainerTed · July 12, 2011

The damage, along with the obvious teeth marks are almost identical to the damage I'm seeing with my still-green apples. My culprit for the apples is Mr. Squirrel. I also have a problem with groundhogs - aka Mr. Whistlepig. While I don't have any small toms to show at the moment, I have lost a few "greenies" to the rapidly diminishing family of 6 that are den'd about 125 feet from my garden. Two months ago, I had 9 problems. Today, I only have 6.

Not sure if the above is a groundhog, squirrel, or large rat, but it is typical damage cause by members of the rodent family which includes rabbits.

Mark0820 · July 12, 2011

Also take into consideration where you found the tomato. If it was still on the vine, it most likely wasn't a squirrel. In my experience, the first thing a squirrel will try to do is pull the tomato off of the vine. This isn't 100% the case, but almost (if the tomato is too big to pull off the vine, sometimes they eat it on the vine). A squirrel also leaves three teeth marks in a tomato (have a unique bite, two at the top and one at the bottom). Obviously, your tomato is too far gone to identify the teeth marks.

Rats eat tomatoes on the vine (rather than pull the tomato off) and have a smaller bite than a squirrel. I have no experience with groundhogs or other members of the rodent family.

shlacm · July 12, 2011

Well, I hope it's a groundhog! I know there are tons of those (and deer) at my garden site. I'd certainly prefer not to add more vermin to the list!!!

Now, at home, in town, I have deer, groundhogs (one's hole is maybe 30 feet from my backyard garden area), squirrel, rabbits, a skunk, raccoons and an opossum all living either in my yard, one of my immediate neighbors' or just traveling through on a very regular basis (deer, rabbits)!!!

My "garden site" is very open and on a busy road, which doesn't deter the deer or groundhogs at all... but the lack of trees seems to eliminate the squirrel problem... anyway, if I set any kind of trap, I could be assured of catching groundhogs galore! I don't know if there's anything else to be caught though...

I'm just hoping groundhogs are as easy to deter as deer!

July 12, 2011	#1
shlacm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central VA Posts: 436	I need a Forensic Dentist... Does anyone know what kind of teeth made these: bite.jpg bite2.jpg bite3.jpg I'm hoping groundhog... otherwise I have more pests to contend with than I thought!

July 12, 2011	#3
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Looks like it's time for some Groundhog Stew. Deer usually don't leave that much and the teeth marks look very rodent family like. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

July 12, 2011	#13
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	The damage, along with the obvious teeth marks are almost identical to the damage I'm seeing with my still-green apples. My culprit for the apples is Mr. Squirrel. I also have a problem with groundhogs - aka Mr. Whistlepig. While I don't have any small toms to show at the moment, I have lost a few "greenies" to the rapidly diminishing family of 6 that are den'd about 125 feet from my garden. Two months ago, I had 9 problems. Today, I only have 6. Not sure if the above is a groundhog, squirrel, or large rat, but it is typical damage cause by members of the rodent family which includes rabbits. __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

July 12, 2011	#2
jeremyhilton Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Ferndale, Washington Posts: 107	Woah that's crazy, I can't imagine what would eat green tomatoes straight off the vine. Good luck with your search for the culprit... Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

July 12, 2011	#5
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Are you sure it isn't a hornworm? They're certainly capable of the damage shown in your photograph and much more.

July 12, 2011	#6
bcday Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY z5 Posts: 1,205	I second the hornworm idea. They love to chew on green tomato fruits as well as the leaves. Given the small size of the tomato the hornworm might not be very big yet, maybe only an inch long, and they do blend in very well with the tomato stems so you'd have to look closely to find it. If you have larger fruits getting ripe in the garden it's hard to believe that a groundhog would pass those up in favor of a tiny one like this which doesn't look like it's even an inch in diameter. Were the fruits on any other plants eaten? And if you found this fruit on or near the ground, a slug could have chewed that hole.

July 12, 2011	#7
Garf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Miami, FL. Posts: 442	Spray with BT and see what happens.

July 12, 2011	#9
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	Hornworms can cause a LOT of damage and eat a shocking amount of plant material (usually foliage, but sometimes fruits too) relative to their size. Although the damage you've posted looks more like something with "teeth", I would not completely rule out hornworms either. In any case the damage you show definitely isn't birds. Want an easy answer as to what might be causing the damage? Set out a havaheart trap or two, bait it with apple slices + a little peanut butter smeared on the slices. If it's hornworms, obviously they won't make their way to the trap (and I also doubt they are into apple slices, LOL) - but if squirrels, opossoms, groundchucks, woodchucks, then they will.

July 12, 2011	#10
Gobig_or_Gohome_toms Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Zone 4 Lake Minnetonka, MN Posts: 967	Is there the tell tale sign of worm poop on the leaves below that fruit? Craig

July 12, 2011	#14
Mark0820 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 907	Also take into consideration where you found the tomato. If it was still on the vine, it most likely wasn't a squirrel. In my experience, the first thing a squirrel will try to do is pull the tomato off of the vine. This isn't 100% the case, but almost (if the tomato is too big to pull off the vine, sometimes they eat it on the vine). A squirrel also leaves three teeth marks in a tomato (have a unique bite, two at the top and one at the bottom). Obviously, your tomato is too far gone to identify the teeth marks. Rats eat tomatoes on the vine (rather than pull the tomato off) and have a smaller bite than a squirrel. I have no experience with groundhogs or other members of the rodent family.