Hot & Sweet Peppers - Cross-Pollinatiion

fortyonenorth · January 20, 2012

I received a catalog today from one of the larger seed companies. In the pepper section, under the "how to grow" section, it says to: "isolate hot and sweet peppers to prevent cross-pollination, which can result in heat in sweet varieties."

They're not talking about seed saving here - I understand that cross-pollinated seed would bear "hot" peppers in the succeeding generation. Rather, they're suggesting that if hot/sweet cross-pollinate, the sweet peppers produced THIS YEAR would be hot.

Can anyone clear this up for me? I am under the assumption that "heat" is in the genes and not subject to the whims of this summer's bee population.

Fusion_power · January 20, 2012

The word you are looking for is Xenia.

DarJones

easttx_hippie · January 21, 2012

Yesterday, I picked some jalapeno, tabasco, poblano, and red, yellow, and orange sweet bell peppers, all in pots grouped together with a lot of intertwining branches. All the hot peppers are hot and all the sweet peppers are sweet....and I'm pretty sure there was some of that cross pollination going on.

But, I've heard a lot of folks that say that cross pollinating made their sweet peppers more like jalapeno.....just never seen it myself.

fortyonenorth · January 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

The word you are looking for is Xenia.

I don't understand, Fusion. What does Xenia mean? Is what I read in the seed catalog (Seeds of Change) accurate?

**nctomatoman** · January 21, 2012

No, any crossing will impact saved seeds, not current fruits. I grow hots and sweets in my driveway - hundreds of them - and my sweets are sweet, my hots are hot - I also save loads of seed and do find the occasional cross.

Fusion_power · January 21, 2012

Xenia is the effect where pollen affects a seed or parts of a plant related to reproduction. An example of xenia is when a cotton seed is larger and healthier than similar but self pollinated seed. You would think the endosperm of a seed was primarily influenced by the maternal plant since two copies of the genome come from the mother and only one from the father, but it turns out that under some conditions the father has an inordinate influence on the seed. Well known examples of xenia are pecans where self pollinated pecans are often less plump than similar cross pollinated pecans.

As NCtomatoman said, I do not know of any situation where capsaicin level is directly affected by xenia, but if you cross a hot pepper with a sweet pepper, the offspring will always be hot in the first cross.

DarJones

Moshou · January 21, 2012

I think that cross pollination happens in flowers because of wind and insects. Statistic says that cross pollination results in seeds and next generation of sweet peppers could be hot. I never heard hot peppers turning sweet, but it doesn't mean is impossible.

To fight cross pollination you should not grow peppers in open air and much more, put them in separate rooms (greenhouses). If you have them outdoor, then put them as far as you can one from another. You also can protect (isolate) blooming sweet peppers with something like gauze. If you cannot protect (isolate) all plant, protect at least a branch with future fruits you want to preserve for seeds. After blooming period you may take off the 'gauze heat', but take care to mark those fruits you are going to save.

fortyonenorth · January 21, 2012

Thanks all. Every once in a while you encounter something that challenges your long-held beliefs. I've had such mixed results from peppers - annually, at least 25% of my CV seeds have been crossed - that I was primed to believe I was missing something.

tjg911 · January 21, 2012

i have read that peppers readily cross and you must grow them in isolation or in cages to stop insects but that wouldn't stop any air borne pollen so they say isolate by distance and that's 500'!

i never saved pepper seeds so i can't say for sure but craig states crossing is not all that common which i am glad to hear. i want to save seeds from peppers i'll grow this year and i was sure they'd cross each other, hots not being as hot and sweets being hot the following year. they'll all grow next to each other so i have no way to isolate them unless i put them in 5 gallon pails and spread them around the yard which would be a major pita.

tom

**nctomatoman** · January 21, 2012

Best thing to do to minimize crossing is to save seeds from very first, and very last, peppers - before and after really active bee movement. I've had pretty good luck doing that.

strax · January 21, 2012

I hear this one all the time. People tell me that their sweet peppers were planted too close to their hot peppers and the result is that they get should-be-sweet peppers that have some heat. I always tell them that they are mistaken. They almost never believe me. Then I give an example something like this, if a white woman and a black man have a baby together, their child will be half white and half black, but the mother will still be white, same with the peppers. They still dont buy it. lol.

I know that peppers cross easily. I assume that what is happening is that people are growing seed, that has been unknowingly crossed. It seems to happen frequently, so I'd guess that it is a widespread problem from several commercial seed sources.

the only other thing that i can think of is that perhaps all sweet peppers have genes witch will produce some heat in the fruit in certain unusual growing circumstances, although not under normal conditions.

rockhound · January 22, 2012

I have had people tell me their watermelon crossed with a gourd and other such nonsense. You have to learn to smile and change the subject. They think they know something and can't be convinced otherwise. That's where the expression comes in..."a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
Corn is the only common garden plant where pollination affects this year's crop. You're not eating the fruit (cob) of the corn plant, you're eating the seeds which are the next generation.

kath · January 22, 2012

My hopes have been dashed- I thought that some kind of cover over the pepper plants would prevent cross pollination.

So if I were to keep the plants of a single pepper variety in a greenhouse until they had set fruit before planting them outdoors with the others, then those fruits would likely be pure, right? The greenhouse is less than 500' from the garden and has 2 doors which would be open for ventilation, but I'm assuming that the pollen would have a tough time reaching the blooms by wind. Guess it's possible that an insect could come in through the unscreened door that had just visited an outdoor pepper plant.

tjg911 · January 22, 2012

sounds like craig has a good idea saving 1st or last fruits to minimize insect pollination. i have seen pictures of isolation cages made from wood and screening for screen windows, seems like a lot of work!

tom

janezee · January 22, 2012

I'm pretty new at the crossing thing, because I haven't saved seeds in the past. Tell me if I'm misinformed.

If they're self-pollinating, can't you just put some fine tulle (bridal veil stuff) over the plants? The stuff is really cheap. $1/foot, which is 7 feet wide. Retail. Not on sale. Available at any Joanne's fabric store, no shipping involved. I'm planning on buying a roll of it in the spring.

I know I've seen it mentioned somewhere, but I don't remember where right now. I'm planning on making several bags for big enough to hold the entire truss/branch of the first fruit on several vegetables.

For broccoli, gai lan, cauliflower, etc, I plan on just covering the whole plant when the cabbage moths show up. I had originally thought I'd just cover the bed, but the math didn't work out for mature plants.

Now that I think about it, I might just be buying 2.

j

January 20, 2012	#1
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Hot & Sweet Peppers - Cross-Pollinatiion I received a catalog today from one of the larger seed companies. In the pepper section, under the "how to grow" section, it says to: "isolate hot and sweet peppers to prevent cross-pollination, which can result in heat in sweet varieties." They're not talking about seed saving here - I understand that cross-pollinated seed would bear "hot" peppers in the succeeding generation. Rather, they're suggesting that if hot/sweet cross-pollinate, the sweet peppers produced THIS YEAR would be hot. Can anyone clear this up for me? I am under the assumption that "heat" is in the genes and not subject to the whims of this summer's bee population.

January 21, 2012	#5
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	No, any crossing will impact saved seeds, not current fruits. I grow hots and sweets in my driveway - hundreds of them - and my sweets are sweet, my hots are hot - I also save loads of seed and do find the occasional cross. __________________ Craig

January 21, 2012	#7
Moshou Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Romania Posts: 470	I think that cross pollination happens in flowers because of wind and insects. Statistic says that cross pollination results in seeds and next generation of sweet peppers could be hot. I never heard hot peppers turning sweet, but it doesn't mean is impossible. To fight cross pollination you should not grow peppers in open air and much more, put them in separate rooms (greenhouses). If you have them outdoor, then put them as far as you can one from another. You also can protect (isolate) blooming sweet peppers with something like gauze. If you cannot protect (isolate) all plant, protect at least a branch with future fruits you want to preserve for seeds. After blooming period you may take off the 'gauze heat', but take care to mark those fruits you are going to save. Last edited by Moshou; January 21, 2012 at 01:48 AM. Reason: more specific

January 21, 2012	#9
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	i have read that peppers readily cross and you must grow them in isolation or in cages to stop insects but that wouldn't stop any air borne pollen so they say isolate by distance and that's 500'! i never saved pepper seeds so i can't say for sure but craig states crossing is not all that common which i am glad to hear. i want to save seeds from peppers i'll grow this year and i was sure they'd cross each other, hots not being as hot and sweets being hot the following year. they'll all grow next to each other so i have no way to isolate them unless i put them in 5 gallon pails and spread them around the yard which would be a major pita. tom __________________ I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the end of the night He’s gotta be strong And he’s gotta be fast And he’s gotta be fresh from the fight I need a hero I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light He’s gotta be sure And it’s gotta be soon And he’s gotta be larger than life

January 21, 2012	#10
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Best thing to do to minimize crossing is to save seeds from very first, and very last, peppers - before and after really active bee movement. I've had pretty good luck doing that. __________________ Craig

January 20, 2012	#2
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,251	The word you are looking for is Xenia. DarJones

January 21, 2012	#3
easttx_hippie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Piney Wood Hills Posts: 423	Yesterday, I picked some jalapeno, tabasco, poblano, and red, yellow, and orange sweet bell peppers, all in pots grouped together with a lot of intertwining branches. All the hot peppers are hot and all the sweet peppers are sweet....and I'm pretty sure there was some of that cross pollination going on. But, I've heard a lot of folks that say that cross pollinating made their sweet peppers more like jalapeno.....just never seen it myself.

January 21, 2012	#11
strax Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: z5 Posts: 146	sweet? I hear this one all the time. People tell me that their sweet peppers were planted too close to their hot peppers and the result is that they get should-be-sweet peppers that have some heat. I always tell them that they are mistaken. They almost never believe me. Then I give an example something like this, if a white woman and a black man have a baby together, their child will be half white and half black, but the mother will still be white, same with the peppers. They still dont buy it. lol. I know that peppers cross easily. I assume that what is happening is that people are growing seed, that has been unknowingly crossed. It seems to happen frequently, so I'd guess that it is a widespread problem from several commercial seed sources. the only other thing that i can think of is that perhaps all sweet peppers have genes witch will produce some heat in the fruit in certain unusual growing circumstances, although not under normal conditions.

January 22, 2012	#12
rockhound Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Tennessee Posts: 285	I have had people tell me their watermelon crossed with a gourd and other such nonsense. You have to learn to smile and change the subject. They think they know something and can't be convinced otherwise. That's where the expression comes in..."a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Corn is the only common garden plant where pollination affects this year's crop. You're not eating the fruit (cob) of the corn plant, you're eating the seeds which are the next generation. Last edited by rockhound; January 22, 2012 at 09:36 AM. Reason: sp

January 22, 2012	#13
kath Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: zone 6b, PA Posts: 5,664	My hopes have been dashed- I thought that some kind of cover over the pepper plants would prevent cross pollination. So if I were to keep the plants of a single pepper variety in a greenhouse until they had set fruit before planting them outdoors with the others, then those fruits would likely be pure, right? The greenhouse is less than 500' from the garden and has 2 doors which would be open for ventilation, but I'm assuming that the pollen would have a tough time reaching the blooms by wind. Guess it's possible that an insect could come in through the unscreened door that had just visited an outdoor pepper plant.

January 22, 2012	#15
janezee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Whidbey Island, WA Zone 7, Sunset 5 Posts: 931	I'm pretty new at the crossing thing, because I haven't saved seeds in the past. Tell me if I'm misinformed. If they're self-pollinating, can't you just put some fine tulle (bridal veil stuff) over the plants? The stuff is really cheap. $1/foot, which is 7 feet wide. Retail. Not on sale. Available at any Joanne's fabric store, no shipping involved. I'm planning on buying a roll of it in the spring. I know I've seen it mentioned somewhere, but I don't remember where right now. I'm planning on making several bags for big enough to hold the entire truss/branch of the first fruit on several vegetables. For broccoli, gai lan, cauliflower, etc, I plan on just covering the whole plant when the cabbage moths show up. I had originally thought I'd just cover the bed, but the math didn't work out for mature plants. Now that I think about it, I might just be buying 2. j