Container gardening similar to 'fishing' ?

March 9, 2012

First, I would like to thank the forum members who welcomed me to this forum when I registered as a 'Newbie'
last week.

Next, I want to reiterate my complete lack of knowledge or experience in container gardening or gardening in general.
After spending quite a bit of time going through the various forum posts the last few days I've come to the conclusion gardening is similar to fishing --- everyone has their own favorite equipment, lure, and 'hole'. With this thought in mind, I have a few basic questions I need help with, keeping in mind I am primarily interested in growing tomatoes.

COMMERCIAL POTTING MIX --- Jiffy Mix, Bacto, Promix, Jiffy Pro, etc. --- all similar or some better than others?

COMMERCIAL MIXES --- Use alone or add other mediums?

CAGES --- Is the idea to keep as much of the plant as possible within the cage, or do you allow the vines to spread outside the cage as they continue to grow upwards?

MAGNESIUM --- Calcium nitrate, dolomite lime, hydrated lime, eggshells, 'tums' etc.best? Related question -- can you overdo the calcium?

TOMATO VARIETIES (I'm living in southeastern Pennsylvania)
Room for six containers and thinking of the following --- comments, opinions, and suggestions all welcomed.

2 paste ----- Viva Italia & Super San Marzano
2 cherry ---- Sungold & Supersweet 100
2 slicers ---- Jet Star & Big Beef

These are a few of the basic questions I have at the moment. I'm sure I will have more as I venture forth. ALL input will be looked forward to and gladly accepted!!!!!!!!!

Farmette · March 9, 2012

Frank:
You are absolutely correct; everyone has their favorite materials/methods. I can only speak for me.
Mix: In the past I have used Promix and other similar products, such as those from Fox Farms, Espoma, etc. For container gardening I always use a soiless mix. This year I will be doing a comparison of two identical tomatoes, pots, etc., but the difference will be in the mix. I plan on using a commercial variety in one pot and a mix of coir, compost and possibly perlite in another.
Cages: I've tried these with pots with some success. I think the idea is to let the vines snake through and possibly tie them to the metal. I have used these for smaller varieties and stakes for large varieties. I think its helpful to also drive another stake outside of the pot into the ground for added stability.
Magnesium: Will let the experts answer this.
Tomatoes: I've grown Sungold and think its a great tomato. I'm sure that you've read that it can crack with excess rain. Sunsugar is similar tomato and I think it is less prone to cracking. Haven't grown Sungold in a pot. I haven't had experience with the others you mentioned, but if you're not thrilled with this year's choices, there are so many for you to choose from next year.
There are so many variables at work when gardening...what works for one may not work well for you. And I've found out that (using the same products and methods) my experiences will vary from year to year. One thing to remember is that you will have to water/fertilize potted tomatoes much more frequently than in ground tomatoes.
I'm sure you'll be amazed at the amount of information you get from T'ville members and the success you will have at growing tomatoes this year. I know that my garden really improved the first summer after I became a member and it has gotten better every year.
Have a great growing season!

nicky · March 9, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankT

TOMATO VARIETIES (I'm living in southeastern Pennsylvania)
Room for six containers and thinking of the following --- comments, opinions, and suggestions all welcomed.

2 paste ----- Viva Italia & Super San Marzano
2 cherry ---- Sungold & Supersweet 100
2 slicers ---- Jet Star & Big Beef

Hi Frank,

I think that you will have to have some pretty large containers for some of those varieties. You may want to have a peek here at some varieties that may work out better in containers:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...ainer_Tomatoes

Happy growing & welcome

Aphid · March 9, 2012

Dolomite lime will cover your magnesium/calcium needs in the proper ratio.

I use espoma garden lime (pellet form dolomitic lime) but there are cheaper brands as well. get it in the mix ....asap..if the mix doesn't contain it or not in enough quantity. it takes some time to break down

be prepared for the massive growth of some plants..Cherry's are no exception.
one of my red cherrys in a large pot grew over 15' tall/long.. last year.I stacked 2) 6' cages on top of each other and they grew out and halfway back down.
it's not uncommon under optimum conditions for some cherry's to reach 25' in length if allowed to sprawl

it's kinda funny that some people I know, think cherry's grow a small plant, because the fruit is small.
when they are often some of the tallest/and bushiest plants in my garden.

now is the time to plan for good strong staking/caging.

I often use plain miracle grow potting mix , they claim it feeds for so many months .. I just ignore that part, as the MG fertilizer washes out and is consumed rather quickly
when dealing with full size tomatoes in a pot.. The medium it's self is not too bad.. but there are better options of course

good luck , sounds like you are on the right track

JamesL · March 9, 2012

Frank,
Good analogy. If you haven't checked it out yet, hit this thread.
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16694

Raybo or rnewste, has published plans for his 3rd generation Earthtainer. He and many others, have done an enormous amount of essentially public experimentation and trials posted in the Workbench and Container sections. Voluminous and fascinating reading.
Warning - Be prepared to launch down the rabbithole....
If you are looking for a "quick start" check out the Earthtainer guide for some instant info on Raybo's 3-2-1 mix and base your materials on what you can find locally.
Cheers!

mtbigfish · March 9, 2012

pro-mix bx & pro-mix pgx or metro-mix 360 are what I have used - add innoculants to metro-mix and pro-mix already has some
I used containers for years in Calif as we were plaqued with nemotodes in some parts of my 3 gardens - used 20gal for tomato - 5 & 10 gal with only a slight reduction in production - though not always for cukes, squash etc. NOW peppers really do better in containers for me - I have found better production - maybe because some of the pots are up out of the ground & get warmer - peppers love heat - but I buried some buckets also leaving only 4" sticking out and they did better too
Don't know if anyone else has seen that but I have with peppers.

fortyonenorth · March 9, 2012

As you've observed, there are probably as many tomato growing techniques as there are tomato growers. Over time, you'll develop your own style and preferences. As with anything, there are some principals that would be wise to follow, namely those having to do with the chemical and physical properties of your growing medium.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankT

COMMERCIAL POTTING MIX --- Jiffy Mix, Bacto, Promix, Jiffy Pro, etc. --- all similar or some better than others?

Everyone has their preference, but these are all variations on the "peat lite" formula, comprised of mainly peat, vermiculite, perlite and other "soilless" ingredients.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankT

COMMERCIAL MIXES --- Use alone or add other mediums?

I've yet to encounter a commercial mix which could not be improved by adding pine bark fines and/or perlite. It's hard to provide exact proportions (these will vary by brand and your local growing conditions) but Ray's 3:2:2 mix (3 parts commercial mix, 2 parts pine bark fines or microbark and 2 parts perlite) would be a good place to start. I'm using an excellent custom mix which I just love. It's comprised of 8 parts PBFs, 1 part bagged mix, 1 part perlite and 1 part Turface (a calcined clay product).

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankT

MAGNESIUM --- Calcium nitrate, dolomite lime, hydrated lime, eggshells, 'tums' etc.best? Related question -- can you overdo the calcium?

First, skip the eggshells, Tums and hydrated lime. Yes, they are sources of calcium, but there are better, more reliable sources, such as dolomitic lime. The amount to add is going to depend on your container mix and fertilizer regimen. IF your mix is pre-amended with lime (most commericial mixes have added lime to balance pH), and IF your fertilizer source includes calcium and magnesium (this would be indicated on the label) then you can skip the lime altogether. If neither your mix nor your fertilizer have calcium and magnesium, then you'll need to add some - say 1 cup (~10oz.) of dolomitic lime per 1 cu. ft. of soil mix, thoroughly incorporated (i.e. not top dressed).

brismith70 · March 10, 2012

I use MiracleGro Potting Soil just because it's what I can find locally in the big box stores.

I also use Raybo's 3:2:1 (Potting Soil : Micro-bark : Perlite) mix when planting in containers of all types including self-watering containers. It really helps avoid soil compaction and prevents having an inch of water hanging out on top of the soil until it can run down the edges of the soil and out the drainage holes. The aeration provided by the micro-bark and the perlite allows water to soak into the root zone of the plant and prevents a lot of issues that you might otherwise have.

I also add in Epsoma Garden Lime. I also use an organic 8-8-8 fertilizer in the container.

I have grown large indeterminate tomatoes in 5 and 10 gallon containers. I have also used several EarthTainers and now I am using several EarthTainer III's. I have grown 6 pepper pants in one 31 gallon Earthtainer, but Raybo now recommends only 4, So I am going to be planting 4 habs in one of my EarthTainers this year. I will have 4 jalapeños in another. I will have 6 cucumbers in one EarthTainer, 4 butternut squashes in another, 2 cantaloupes in yet another.

I am experimenting with the 5 gallon bucket self-watering containers as well. It's my first year trying them. I have one with cucumbers, one with cantaloupes and one with butternut squash. I was going to build another one for tomatoes, but don't know if I'll have room for it.

I am also doing peppers - jalapeño, habanero and california wonder - in traditional 5 gallon containers.

In each container, I use the same soil mix, lime and fertilizer. It has never failed me. And I tend to grow in some pretty brutal summer conditions.

March 10, 2012

Thank you Fortyonenorth --- you have provided some clear answers to many of my questions.

FrankT

dice · March 16, 2012

Cages: those little 3' cages one commonly sees at hardware stores
are not going to cut it. You might find a trellis works better with less
work once you have it up.

I have some similar to the one this guy is building (although mine are
on recycled chain link fence poles rather than conduit):
http://www.growgardentomatoes.com/tomato-trellis.html

I have also built a few of these:
http://www.youngfarmers.org/wp-conte...ldingCages.jpg

If you are super handy, dcarch's custom trellis system:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=5160

If you only want to build it once and never mess with it again:
http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=19126

More ideas:
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...j1l14l0.pfwe.1.

People build large cages out of concrete reinforcing wire (CRW), but
they are some work to build.

March 9, 2012	#1
FrankT Guest Posts: n/a	Container gardening similar to 'fishing' ? First, I would like to thank the forum members who welcomed me to this forum when I registered as a 'Newbie' last week. Next, I want to reiterate my complete lack of knowledge or experience in container gardening or gardening in general. After spending quite a bit of time going through the various forum posts the last few days I've come to the conclusion gardening is similar to fishing --- everyone has their own favorite equipment, lure, and 'hole'. With this thought in mind, I have a few basic questions I need help with, keeping in mind I am primarily interested in growing tomatoes. COMMERCIAL POTTING MIX --- Jiffy Mix, Bacto, Promix, Jiffy Pro, etc. --- all similar or some better than others? COMMERCIAL MIXES --- Use alone or add other mediums? CAGES --- Is the idea to keep as much of the plant as possible within the cage, or do you allow the vines to spread outside the cage as they continue to grow upwards? MAGNESIUM --- Calcium nitrate, dolomite lime, hydrated lime, eggshells, 'tums' etc.best? Related question -- can you overdo the calcium? TOMATO VARIETIES (I'm living in southeastern Pennsylvania) Room for six containers and thinking of the following --- comments, opinions, and suggestions all welcomed. 2 paste ----- Viva Italia & Super San Marzano 2 cherry ---- Sungold & Supersweet 100 2 slicers ---- Jet Star & Big Beef These are a few of the basic questions I have at the moment. I'm sure I will have more as I venture forth. ALL input will be looked forward to and gladly accepted!!!!!!!!!

March 9, 2012	#2
Farmette Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 985	Frank: You are absolutely correct; everyone has their favorite materials/methods. I can only speak for me. Mix: In the past I have used Promix and other similar products, such as those from Fox Farms, Espoma, etc. For container gardening I always use a soiless mix. This year I will be doing a comparison of two identical tomatoes, pots, etc., but the difference will be in the mix. I plan on using a commercial variety in one pot and a mix of coir, compost and possibly perlite in another. Cages: I've tried these with pots with some success. I think the idea is to let the vines snake through and possibly tie them to the metal. I have used these for smaller varieties and stakes for large varieties. I think its helpful to also drive another stake outside of the pot into the ground for added stability. Magnesium: Will let the experts answer this. Tomatoes: I've grown Sungold and think its a great tomato. I'm sure that you've read that it can crack with excess rain. Sunsugar is similar tomato and I think it is less prone to cracking. Haven't grown Sungold in a pot. I haven't had experience with the others you mentioned, but if you're not thrilled with this year's choices, there are so many for you to choose from next year. There are so many variables at work when gardening...what works for one may not work well for you. And I've found out that (using the same products and methods) my experiences will vary from year to year. One thing to remember is that you will have to water/fertilize potted tomatoes much more frequently than in ground tomatoes. I'm sure you'll be amazed at the amount of information you get from T'ville members and the success you will have at growing tomatoes this year. I know that my garden really improved the first summer after I became a member and it has gotten better every year. Have a great growing season! Last edited by Farmette; March 9, 2012 at 12:42 PM. Reason: watering

March 9, 2012	#4
Aphid Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Nashville TN zone 6-B Posts: 133	Dolomite lime will cover your magnesium/calcium needs in the proper ratio. I use espoma garden lime (pellet form dolomitic lime) but there are cheaper brands as well. get it in the mix ....asap..if the mix doesn't contain it or not in enough quantity. it takes some time to break down be prepared for the massive growth of some plants..Cherry's are no exception. one of my red cherrys in a large pot grew over 15' tall/long.. last year.I stacked 2) 6' cages on top of each other and they grew out and halfway back down. it's not uncommon under optimum conditions for some cherry's to reach 25' in length if allowed to sprawl it's kinda funny that some people I know, think cherry's grow a small plant, because the fruit is small. when they are often some of the tallest/and bushiest plants in my garden. now is the time to plan for good strong staking/caging. I often use plain miracle grow potting mix , they claim it feeds for so many months .. I just ignore that part, as the MG fertilizer washes out and is consumed rather quickly when dealing with full size tomatoes in a pot.. The medium it's self is not too bad.. but there are better options of course good luck , sounds like you are on the right track Last edited by Aphid; March 9, 2012 at 01:08 PM.

March 16, 2012	#10
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Cages: those little 3' cages one commonly sees at hardware stores are not going to cut it. You might find a trellis works better with less work once you have it up. I have some similar to the one this guy is building (although mine are on recycled chain link fence poles rather than conduit): http://www.growgardentomatoes.com/tomato-trellis.html I have also built a few of these: http://www.youngfarmers.org/wp-conte...ldingCages.jpg If you are super handy, dcarch's custom trellis system: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=5160 If you only want to build it once and never mess with it again: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=19126 More ideas: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isc...j1l14l0.pfwe.1. People build large cages out of concrete reinforcing wire (CRW), but they are some work to build. __________________ -- alias

March 9, 2012	#5
JamesL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 1,992	Frank, Good analogy. If you haven't checked it out yet, hit this thread. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16694 Raybo or rnewste, has published plans for his 3rd generation Earthtainer. He and many others, have done an enormous amount of essentially public experimentation and trials posted in the Workbench and Container sections. Voluminous and fascinating reading. Warning - Be prepared to launch down the rabbithole.... If you are looking for a "quick start" check out the Earthtainer guide for some instant info on Raybo's 3-2-1 mix and base your materials on what you can find locally. Cheers!

March 9, 2012	#6
mtbigfish Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chillicothe Ohio - left Calif July 2010 Posts: 451	pro-mix bx & pro-mix pgx or metro-mix 360 are what I have used - add innoculants to metro-mix and pro-mix already has some I used containers for years in Calif as we were plaqued with nemotodes in some parts of my 3 gardens - used 20gal for tomato - 5 & 10 gal with only a slight reduction in production - though not always for cukes, squash etc. NOW peppers really do better in containers for me - I have found better production - maybe because some of the pots are up out of the ground & get warmer - peppers love heat - but I buried some buckets also leaving only 4" sticking out and they did better too Don't know if anyone else has seen that but I have with peppers.

March 10, 2012	#8
brismith70 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 71	I use MiracleGro Potting Soil just because it's what I can find locally in the big box stores. I also use Raybo's 3:2:1 (Potting Soil : Micro-bark : Perlite) mix when planting in containers of all types including self-watering containers. It really helps avoid soil compaction and prevents having an inch of water hanging out on top of the soil until it can run down the edges of the soil and out the drainage holes. The aeration provided by the micro-bark and the perlite allows water to soak into the root zone of the plant and prevents a lot of issues that you might otherwise have. I also add in Epsoma Garden Lime. I also use an organic 8-8-8 fertilizer in the container. I have grown large indeterminate tomatoes in 5 and 10 gallon containers. I have also used several EarthTainers and now I am using several EarthTainer III's. I have grown 6 pepper pants in one 31 gallon Earthtainer, but Raybo now recommends only 4, So I am going to be planting 4 habs in one of my EarthTainers this year. I will have 4 jalapeños in another. I will have 6 cucumbers in one EarthTainer, 4 butternut squashes in another, 2 cantaloupes in yet another. I am experimenting with the 5 gallon bucket self-watering containers as well. It's my first year trying them. I have one with cucumbers, one with cantaloupes and one with butternut squash. I was going to build another one for tomatoes, but don't know if I'll have room for it. I am also doing peppers - jalapeño, habanero and california wonder - in traditional 5 gallon containers. In each container, I use the same soil mix, lime and fertilizer. It has never failed me. And I tend to grow in some pretty brutal summer conditions.