The dark side of Sluggo

[dice]

http://www.hostalibrary.org/firstloo...nPhosphate.htm

(Back to the box turtle, I guess.)

[Tania]

wow! Thank you for posting this, I had no idea.

[dice]

It occurred to me that I have chelated iron, but chelated with
lignosulfonate (a wood product) rather than with EDTA. I mix
it with molasses to spray plants that are showing some iron
deficiency (yellowing in the new leaves). I can pour half a beer
into a couple of gallons of it mixed up for spraying (as a source
of yeast fermentation products, which attract slugs) and try
spraying it around the edges of the gardens, walkways, and so on.
Slugs and snails might suck it up. (I have always been annoyed with
Sluggo's tendency to disappear into the mulch and be snapped up by
the local squirrels as a tasty snack, anyway.)

[habitat_gardener]

A friend at the community garden mentioned a spray made with (iirc) cloves and cinnamon to deter slugs and snails. I've also seen recipes for homemade garlic-based sprays, and of course there are the traps made with yeast or beer.

[Crandrew]

Wow...thanks for posting!!! I almost bought some. I guess its back to nightly hunts with the headlamp

[dice]

I have used Sluggo and Worry Free for a few years, but for a
pound of Sluggo, half of it either ends up down in the mulch,
where slugs and snails can crawl right over the top and miss it,
or inside of a squirrel. That makes it an expensive product.
(I always liked Deadline for its ability to stay stuck to whatever
I applied it to, as long as it was not raining, but that is a toxic
chemical to more than slugs and snails. I certainly do not want
my vegetables absorbing it.)

Time to try something different.

[maf]

I have seen this article before. I find it hard to believe that the Iron Phosphate pellets, even with with EDTA included, are more toxic to wildlife than the Metaldehyde ones. But, I am not a chemist or a toxicologist so my opinion does not count for much.

I have both types to hand here and have been using the Iron Phosphate one in preference to the other for the last couple of years, mainly for environmental reasons. I would like to see a proper scientific study comparing the two.

[fortyonenorth]

Originally Posted by maf

I have seen this article before. I find it hard to believe that the Iron Phosphate pellets, even with with EDTA included, are more toxic to wildlife than the Metaldehyde ones.

Very true, MAF. If I read the article correctly, I believe the author takes issue with the labeling, rather than the absolute toxicity. Metaldehyde is a poison and is labeled as such--with the obligatory warnings and mandated inclusion of Bitrex to make it unpalatable to animals and humans. On the other hand, the iron phosphate-based products are not held to the same safety or labeling standards because they are "organic."

[dice]

We have a new dog, a toy poodle - Bichon mix, a little more than
a year old. Judging by his habits with everything else, he would not
hesitate to eat a handful of Sluggo that I had tossed under a tomato
plant or along the edge of a garden bed, either because he saw
a squirrel eating it or simply to find out whether he liked it. ("Is this
a dog treat?")

I would rather avoid the risk to him mentioned in the article.

[tjg911]

i am confused why people are worried about kids or pets eating enough sluggo to harm them. here's the dosage:

"Simply scatter around or near plants to be protected. Apply evenly at about 1 lb. per 1,000 square feet (1 teaspoon per square yard). Re-apply as bait is consumed. In potted plants, apply 1/2 teaspoon per 9-inch pot. May be used up to and including day of harvest."

a sq yard is 3' X 3'... ONE teaspoon. that's a tiny amount even if doing several plants. i seldom use it and if i do i seldom apply it more than once, two times would be the maximum. it's very effective from my experience since i seldom need to use it more than 1 time.

i mean if you eat the whole box when then it may well hurt you but for crying out loud who's going to put down a box in a small area?

tom

[stormymater]

Our dear now departed Aussie, Margaret Thatcher, got into a neighbor's plop o' Sluggo one drizzly evening while on a stroll with DH. She developed seizures - I could not leave the hospital so DH took her to Vet ER - was told Sluggo was culprit. For the rest of her life, she would occasionally have absence seizures. Sluggo is probably mis-applied by many and a big ol' lump of it sure hurt poor Maggie.

[Crandrew]

Originally Posted by tjg911

i am confused why people are worried about kids or pets eating enough sluggo to harm them. here's the dosage:

"Simply scatter around or near plants to be protected. Apply evenly at about 1 lb. per 1,000 square feet (1 teaspoon per square yard). Re-apply as bait is consumed. In potted plants, apply 1/2 teaspoon per 9-inch pot. May be used up to and including day of harvest."

a sq yard is 3' X 3'... ONE teaspoon. that's a tiny amount even if doing several plants. i seldom use it and if i do i seldom apply it more than once, two times would be the maximum. it's very effective from my experience since i seldom need to use it more than 1 time.

i mean if you eat the whole box when then it may well hurt you but for crying out loud who's going to put down a box in a small area?

tom

Regarding the item in bold...you do realize there are a lot of people who are not as smart as you Have you heard of some of the things folks do????


This is what was worrying some folks:
"Like metaldehyde baits, these iron phosphate baits are mostly a food-based pellet that smells strongly like cereal to attract the slugs from a distance. Unlike the metaldehyde baits, the iron phosphate baits do not appear to contain Bitrex to prevent unintentional ingestion by pets and children. Bitrex is an extremely bitter-tasting substance that most mammals will not eat. The EPA recently mandated that metaldehyde bait products sold in the U.S. increase their Bitrex amount tenfold to reduce the risk of accidental poisonings. Iron Phosphate baits like the popular Sluggo do not list Bitrex as an ingredient, and are not required or presumed to have it."

[tjg911]

well thanks for the recognition of my ability to read directions, doesn't everyone?

if we have too worry about everything in life being a danger then we'll never do anything but read warnings and worry. don't push sharpened pencil into eye, may cause irreparable damage. don't drink gasoline, may cause poisoning. don't exit car when going 10 mph... i mean many things could be a danger. i'd add to that read directions and follow them. dumping a handful of sluggo is not what they suggest.

i would not stop using sluggo based upon what i have read in this thread. now my garden is fenced tho a dog could easily jump the fence, there are no children here and if there were they would not be allowed in the garden unattended, maybe not at all and certainly would not be allowed to get under broccoli plants to eat anything! i realize people with kids and no fence have an exposure here that i don't but using the proper amount and watching your kid or pet would go a long way to protecting them.

it is good to know this and remind people but like i said i don't see sluggo as something to not use based upon what i have read here. maybe i am missing something?

tom

[dice]

Excess iron is not easily removed from the human body, but the
situation is worse for dogs, which are the main problem with
metaldehyde-based slug baits. The iron LD50 for dogs is about the same
as it is for people, but they have no mechanism for getting excess iron
out of their systems. That means that each time they ingest iron it adds
to the amount already in their body, building higher and higher until
symptoms appear and can lead to death. So, for a 45lb dog, eating 2.5
lbs of Sluggo will be lethal half the time, again if all the iron is absorbed.
That is bad enough, but the real danger there is if the dog eats a little
every few days, slowly building up the iron in its system. Before the
appearance of iron phosphate slug baits, iron poisoning in dogs was rare,
resulting mainly from their getting into iron supplements designed for
humans. Now with these baits becoming commonly available and
advertised everywhere as safe around pets, we can expect to see a
dramatic rise in iron poisoning in dogs, and it seems we are beginning to
see that.

The advertising and classification of it as "safe" is definitely misleading.

My dog is about the size of a 6-month old baby. It would not take much
iron phosphate to be toxic to him. (Of course, beating the squirrels to
it around here would be no easy task. He would have to be fairly unlucky
to spot it before they do.)

This stuff needs Bitrex in it just as much as metaldehyde slug baits do.

[stormymater]

Go for it Tom. There's no legislating stupid away & there's no protecting against stupid. You are exactly correct - personal responsibility & autonomy (which includes reading labels and using products as directed and making sensible decisions) are becoming scarce commodities in this country with the demise of any opportunities for natural selection.