Black spots on Oxheart leaves. What is this? (pictures)

FrozenFlame22 · June 13, 2013

I'm brand new to gardening and I've never been able to keep even a houseplant alive. I followed the EarthTainer instructions as close as possible given the limitations of materials in my area. So far my little tomato farm seems to be doing well. I had an aphid infestation last weekend, but an insecticidal soap took care of that.

From left to right in EarthTainers: Oxheart, Big Beef, Earlygirl, Siberian, Sasha, Sweet 100 (near), Black Cherry (far). Foreground in Global Buckets: Sweet Basil, Sweet Mint. Not pictured in Global Bucket: Red Basil

However my Oxhearts have never really grown well. Especially the one closest to the camera. It has always been spindly and generally unhealthy looking. I don't know if this is typical to Oxheart, but I did notice that the blossoms seem really thick and irregularly shaped. There are also small knots on the vine that I don't see on any of the other varieties of tomato plants.

From left to right in EarthTainers: Oxheart, Big Beef, Earlygirl, Siberian.

This morning I noticed small black spots on the leaves of the smaller Oxheart. This is only on the surface and not on the underside. The spots are not fuzzy and so far the fruit seems unaffected. The worst of the spotted leaves are pictured, but at least half the leaves on this plant have similar spotting.

Black spots on smaller Oxheart.

The spots are also seen on the larger Oxheart, but not on the neighboring Big Beef.

Black spots on leaves of larger Oxheart. (Sorry for the blurry picture.)

The Big Beefs have some brown pitting on the underside of the fruit. The fruit is firm and doesn't appear to be rotten. Is this normal?

Underside of Big Beef tomatoes.

What are the black spots on the Oxhearts? Should I be concerned about the Big Beefs?

ginger2778 · June 13, 2013

Here's my most educated guess. The leaf spots look like Septoria because there is no yellowing or watery concentric circles that I can see. The leathery spot on the bottom of the big beef is Blossom End Rot and that one I am certain of. Container gardening is famous for BER. I container garden also, and my BER stopped immediately when I gave my earthboxes a treatment with calcium nitrate. It's very inexpensive and you use 1/2 tsp per gallon per week. Some say the plants will grow out of it, but I am impatient. I got mine at Kelp4Less.com.
It will probably keep other fruit from getting BER but it won't fix the ones that already have it. It solved my problems with BER completely.
I find copper fungicide spray very helpful for Septoria but it is management at this point, you won't completely cure it. After spraying cut off infected leaves and bag them so the disease is slowed down. Also be sure to alcohol off your pruning tool or spray with Lysol before going to the next plant, and your hands or gloves also.
Only spray in the early morning or late afternoon so the sun doesn't burn he leaves that have wet spray on them.
I hope you find this long winded post helpful.

Marsha

b54red · June 13, 2013

Why can't I see any pictures?

Riceloft · June 13, 2013

The pic is blurry, but that doesn't look like BER. It instead looks like mild catfacing. It looks like a pit and not a soft, rotting end.

FrozenFlame22 · June 13, 2013

The bottom of the Big Beef tomatoes are not soft at all. It is indeed more like a pit. I'll keep an eye on it and let you know how it develops.

Any other ideas on the black spots on the Oxhearts? If it is something that might infect the other tomatoes, like Septoria, I'd like to get these plants out before it spreads.

I don't know why you can't see the pictures b54red. I have them in a public album on Tomatoville.

ginger2778 · June 13, 2013

I never had soft rotting BER, it is rather a leathery texture. The rot in the name can be misleading.

FrozenFlame22 · June 14, 2013

I looked at some more pictures of BER and yes that looks like it.

For the Oxheart, I read the stickies in this forum and it looks to me a lot like Tomato Spotted Virus in this thread: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=1519

Is there anyone who can confirm this or suggest an alternate issue? If it is TSV, and if I do need to destroy the plants, would I need to dump the potting mix as well?

z_willus_d · June 14, 2013

Here's my take on your questions, and I don't usually have a take.

1) What about those black spots?
Well, if they showed up only after you sprayed the soap, I'd say it's very likely that's just the soap eating into your foliage. Take a look at the pics in this post (my own) where I've documented what happens when one uses Safer insecticidal soap on tomatoes (there are a few more devils to the details).
http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....&postcount=133

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if those black spots are due to your spraying.

2) I don't see any BER in your photos. That just looks like regular catfacing, which is a leathery "scab" that develops on the blossom side of the tomatoes, usually on the first few on a plant and more often when temperatures are relatively cool. That's not to say that one or more of your tomatoes will not develop BER down the line. I would expect a few will by the end of it all, as you're in containers and heat and watering can be tricky. The EarthTainers do tend to do better than regular containers in that area though.

Good luck.
-naysen

FrozenFlame22 · June 15, 2013

I honestly don't know if the black spots were on the leaves before I sprayed them, so that is possible. It looks a lot like your pictures. I did go the super cheap route on the soap. I mixed 1 cup Dawn dish soap and 1 cup olive oil then diluted that mixture 1 tablespoon to 1 cup water. The Oxhearts were the last ones I sprayed and the last ones I rinsed off an hour or so later. I might have gotten a higher concentration on them and then left it a little longer than the others. I'll watch it very closely for signs of spreading and ask again if it does. It hasn't spread so far in the last 4 days.

Thanks for the info on BER and catfacing. I honestly don't know what I'm looking at when I compare pictures. I can say, however, that these tomatoes have no soft spots on them at all. Also the brown pits are on tomatoes that all set before I put them in the EarthTainers, so it was still getting down to 48 degrees F at night. I'm going to just let them develop and cut them open to check them before eating.

z_willus_d · June 15, 2013

FF22, I bet you'll be fine. You're garden looks like it's starting off great, and your EarthTainers look to be better constructed than those I put assembled last year.

Enjoy the summer.
-naysen

bbjm · June 18, 2013

Your garden looks great. I wanted to just say that, in my limited experience, heart tomato plants look limp and droopy compared to others. I really do think it's their nature.

June 13, 2013	#1
FrozenFlame22 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 10	Black spots on Oxheart leaves. What is this? (pictures) I'm brand new to gardening and I've never been able to keep even a houseplant alive. I followed the EarthTainer instructions as close as possible given the limitations of materials in my area. So far my little tomato farm seems to be doing well. I had an aphid infestation last weekend, but an insecticidal soap took care of that. From left to right in EarthTainers: Oxheart, Big Beef, Earlygirl, Siberian, Sasha, Sweet 100 (near), Black Cherry (far). Foreground in Global Buckets: Sweet Basil, Sweet Mint. Not pictured in Global Bucket: Red Basil However my Oxhearts have never really grown well. Especially the one closest to the camera. It has always been spindly and generally unhealthy looking. I don't know if this is typical to Oxheart, but I did notice that the blossoms seem really thick and irregularly shaped. There are also small knots on the vine that I don't see on any of the other varieties of tomato plants. From left to right in EarthTainers: Oxheart, Big Beef, Earlygirl, Siberian. This morning I noticed small black spots on the leaves of the smaller Oxheart. This is only on the surface and not on the underside. The spots are not fuzzy and so far the fruit seems unaffected. The worst of the spotted leaves are pictured, but at least half the leaves on this plant have similar spotting. Black spots on smaller Oxheart. The spots are also seen on the larger Oxheart, but not on the neighboring Big Beef. Black spots on leaves of larger Oxheart. (Sorry for the blurry picture.) The Big Beefs have some brown pitting on the underside of the fruit. The fruit is firm and doesn't appear to be rotten. Is this normal? Underside of Big Beef tomatoes. What are the black spots on the Oxhearts? Should I be concerned about the Big Beefs?

June 13, 2013	#2
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	Here's my most educated guess. The leaf spots look like Septoria because there is no yellowing or watery concentric circles that I can see. The leathery spot on the bottom of the big beef is Blossom End Rot and that one I am certain of. Container gardening is famous for BER. I container garden also, and my BER stopped immediately when I gave my earthboxes a treatment with calcium nitrate. It's very inexpensive and you use 1/2 tsp per gallon per week. Some say the plants will grow out of it, but I am impatient. I got mine at Kelp4Less.com. It will probably keep other fruit from getting BER but it won't fix the ones that already have it. It solved my problems with BER completely. I find copper fungicide spray very helpful for Septoria but it is management at this point, you won't completely cure it. After spraying cut off infected leaves and bag them so the disease is slowed down. Also be sure to alcohol off your pruning tool or spray with Lysol before going to the next plant, and your hands or gloves also. Only spray in the early morning or late afternoon so the sun doesn't burn he leaves that have wet spray on them. I hope you find this long winded post helpful. Marsha

June 13, 2013	#3
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Why can't I see any pictures?

June 13, 2013	#4
Riceloft Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Parma, Ohio (6a) Posts: 299	The pic is blurry, but that doesn't look like BER. It instead looks like mild catfacing. It looks like a pit and not a soft, rotting end.

June 14, 2013	#7
FrozenFlame22 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 10	I looked at some more pictures of BER and yes that looks like it. For the Oxheart, I read the stickies in this forum and it looks to me a lot like Tomato Spotted Virus in this thread: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=1519 Is there anyone who can confirm this or suggest an alternate issue? If it is TSV, and if I do need to destroy the plants, would I need to dump the potting mix as well?

June 14, 2013	#8
z_willus_d Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Eastern Suburb of Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,313	Here's my take on your questions, and I don't usually have a take. 1) What about those black spots? Well, if they showed up only after you sprayed the soap, I'd say it's very likely that's just the soap eating into your foliage. Take a look at the pics in this post (my own) where I've documented what happens when one uses Safer insecticidal soap on tomatoes (there are a few more devils to the details). http://www.tomatoville.com/showpost....&postcount=133 Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if those black spots are due to your spraying. 2) I don't see any BER in your photos. That just looks like regular catfacing, which is a leathery "scab" that develops on the blossom side of the tomatoes, usually on the first few on a plant and more often when temperatures are relatively cool. That's not to say that one or more of your tomatoes will not develop BER down the line. I would expect a few will by the end of it all, as you're in containers and heat and watering can be tricky. The EarthTainers do tend to do better than regular containers in that area though. Good luck. -naysen

June 15, 2013	#9
FrozenFlame22 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 10	I honestly don't know if the black spots were on the leaves before I sprayed them, so that is possible. It looks a lot like your pictures. I did go the super cheap route on the soap. I mixed 1 cup Dawn dish soap and 1 cup olive oil then diluted that mixture 1 tablespoon to 1 cup water. The Oxhearts were the last ones I sprayed and the last ones I rinsed off an hour or so later. I might have gotten a higher concentration on them and then left it a little longer than the others. I'll watch it very closely for signs of spreading and ask again if it does. It hasn't spread so far in the last 4 days. Thanks for the info on BER and catfacing. I honestly don't know what I'm looking at when I compare pictures. I can say, however, that these tomatoes have no soft spots on them at all. Also the brown pits are on tomatoes that all set before I put them in the EarthTainers, so it was still getting down to 48 degrees F at night. I'm going to just let them develop and cut them open to check them before eating.

June 18, 2013	#11
bbjm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kansas Posts: 155	Your garden looks great. I wanted to just say that, in my limited experience, heart tomato plants look limp and droopy compared to others. I really do think it's their nature.