ingredient compatibility for preventive foliar fungicide

[unless]

because i want the convenience of spraying everything all in one go, i am curious: are these ingredients compatible with one another?

organocide (horticultural oil)
potassium bicarbonate
actinovate
molasses

i know organocide + potassium bicarbonate + molasses = okay, and i know actinovate + molasses = okay; i'm just unsure about everything all together (it is the sensitivity of the actinovate bacteria that is most in question).

i plan to make it my go-to for early blight and powdery mildew. i will not use copper, sulfur, or neem.

[tlintx]

I'm sorry I don't know the answer, but, since I just sprayed for the first time ever yesterday, why not neem? You're making me nervous.


Tl

[unless]

mostly because, when you're applying over a large area, it will inevitably get on flowers, and bees and butterflies don't much like neem. this is bad news for pollination of things like squash blossoms. i only use it as a last resort, because it drives away beneficials.

[tlintx]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that! Good point!

Hopefully someone who knows the answer to your question will answer soon. Thank you for answering mine!

Tl

[RayR]

The first thing is never spray any oil on open blossoms. I'd be more concerned about the Organocide 3in1 than Neem in that regard since it is mostly fish oil, a much heavier and stickier oil than Neem.

I'm not a fan of mixing a lot of things together for convenience sake for a number of reasons.

1.) Will mixing all those things in combination possibly cause phytotoxicity? If you must try the mix, experiment on a sacrificial plant that you can afford to damage. That goes double for you on Zone 9 heat.

2.) If phytotoxicity does not happen, will mixing all those things together reduce or kill the effectiveness of some or all of the products? A likely possibility there, more types of fungicides applied all at once does not mean you will reap the benefits of the modes of action of all.

3.) Is the recommended types of application compatible with each other? Organocide 3in1 is supposed to be applied as a fine mist, no drenching of the leaf surface. Potassium Bicarbonate or Actinovate and a wee bit of molasses or a surfactant as a spreader/sticker can and should be a applied heavier till run off.

[unless]

hi rayr!

as i understand it, it's only direct contact (a thorough dousing) with organocide that is a no-no for bees, and as long as it's applied in the evening with adequate time to dry before the morning bee incursion, there shouldn't be any issues. it is specifically advertised as harmless to bees and butterflies.

neem, on the other hand, unlike short-acting horticultural oils, is not only potentially harmful by contact but also poisonous by ingestion. correct me if i'm wrong.

i agree with you that it's still a good idea to avoid spraying blossoms as much as possible. that can be difficult, however, when a cucumber or melon is LOADED with blossoms that stay open all day long, and i'm on my hands and knees with a sprayer trying to get all the upper and lower leaf surfaces.

that said, you do have me wondering now whether or not i even need to use an oil like neem or organocide. while great for powdery mildew, neither are particularly good for blight. but potassium bicarbonate and actinovate are good for both, and could potentially be applied together with molasses. hmm. decisions, decisions...

though i guess one boon to neem is that it works on squash bugs (supposedly, though i've never tried it). have you tried it for this purpose?

[JamesL]

Unless,
Organocide's product Plant Doctor, is the same as Exel LG. It is a systemic and plays nicely with Actinovate and molasses. Would not add potassium bicarb to that same mix though.

[unless]

i looked at plant doctor, but i'm curious as to what disqualifies it from OMRI approval, and why its use is restricted in california...

[RayR]

Originally Posted by unless

i looked at plant doctor, but i'm curious as to what disqualifies it from OMRI approval, and why its use is restricted in california...

Plant Doctor (Excel LG) is Mono- and di-potassium salts of Phosphorous Acid, a synthetic compound not naturally occurring , that's why it is not OMRI certified.
Although a safe, non-toxic compound, I assume California restrictions, whatever they are must be related to proper rate of application.

It is important to note that although it is classified as a "fungicide", it does not have any direct action against true fungi. Applying it against true fungi like Powdery Mildew, Early Blight, Gray Mold or Septoria will just have those fungi laughing at the silly human thinking it's killing them.
It is believed to have an alternate mode of action in that the phosphite ion seems to heighten the plants own natural defense mechanisms against pathogens.
It only has a direct action against Oomycetes, which are not true fungi, so it can have a devastating effect against things like Downy Mildew, Pythium and other oomycetes pathogens because the phosphite ion that is introduced into the plant tissue really messes up an Oomycete's metabolism.

[unless]

hmm. i'll probably ditch the organicide 3-in-1 (sesame & fish oil)/neem oil idea entirely. i'll just go completely oil-free. this way i can make 100% certain that i am not interfering with beneficial insects. besides, applying oil to everything during the hottest time of year (100+ degree highs daily), even though it's done at night, might not be a good idea anyway, lest the sun come up the next morning and burn all the foliage!

so, it looks like actinovate + kaligreen (potassium bicarbonate) + molasses for me. the following is one of a few articles i just found citing the effectiveness of both actinovate and kaligreen together. now, i'm not so worried about combining them!

http://naturalindustries.com/commerc...on.tech001.pdf