What is going on with my plant?

TexasTycoon · June 24, 2015

(Warning: picture-heavy post)

I seem to be having multiple issues going on with my container-grown Tycoon plant. It has several ripening fruits (these pictures were taken a few days ago and even more are ripening now), but the leaves and parts of stems are looking sad. I also noticed a few weevil-like critters crowding one fruit (these have since been blasted off with water and insecticidal soap of dish soap, water, and peppermint extract has been applied) which you'll see in the pictures below. We are first-time tomato growers, growing in a big pot (can't remember the size, sorry) on our apartment porch. The plant was purchased nearly fully-grown at the end of April from a local nursery and appeared to be in great health, with a few blossoms already. It is now about 4 feet tall, and the whole plant was bent over pretty badly by some strong winds we had a few weeks ago (Memorial Day weekend Central TX storms and flooding). We had to removed a few damaged branches, covering the wounds from cutting with masking tape as a type of bandage to prevent infection. All fruit was intact and unbruised, so we got some taller stakes and tied up the plant for support as best we could. We were even able to save one of the branches we had to lop off and rooted it in a smaller pot (see pull-back photo of plant, at right in the corner of the patio is the new little plant with some dead leaves I need to prune off). I guess my point here is that, ever since that storm damage, the leaves of our main plant have been sad-looking, and I can't figure out the cause(s).

We water every few days when the soil looks dry (it's a self-watering container), and use the miracle gro packets for watering cans once a week, sometimes alternating with a few tablespoons of liquid fish in the watering can. The growing medium is a miracle gro potting mix, and tomato/veggie fertilizer was scratched into the mix around the plant when we first transplanted it into the big pot.

We've had no other pest issues with it aside from one hornworm we promptly removed and sliced in half about a week after planting.

Okay, enough rambling, here are the pictures! Like I said, the plant is still producing fruit (and I see a few blossom buds and baby tomatoes as well), but the leaves look like they're trying to tell us something. (Plus, what on earth are those critters??)

P.S. We harvested our first two tomatoes from the plant and used them in a pizza sauce last night. They were a little firm, but bright red (see my avatar), and worked just fine for the sauce once cooked. No internal issues aside from a little of the inner "core" near the stem being green, and some green seeds.

squirrel789 · June 25, 2015

It almost looks like there are some tiny green aphids in the underside of the leaf in the third pic down on the left. Its really hard to see well enough to tell though. Not sure about the critters in the first couple of pics, but there are some great threads and links to resources in the pests/diseases section of the forum that might help.

Also, I think MG potting mix usually has a slow release fertilizer already in it, and so that plus the other fertilizers may be pushing it. I'm no expert, just a newbie with container gardening myself, I've learned that when it comes to fertilizing, too much is almost always far worse than not enough. Looks like of like some leaves are a little burned around the edges and maybe something has been chewing on the other ones (with the circular patterns), if it's not that, it could be the initial phases of a fungal issue? Sorry, I guess that's probably not specific enough to be much help...

I highly suggest you post this is the pests/diseases section of the forum and I bet you'll get plenty of answers/advice there.

Best of luck!

Ed of Somis · June 25, 2015

I think the most important thing you need to find out is: is your soil too waterlogged or too dry. Hopefully you did not use the "moisture control" MG potting mix. It holds way too much water and smothers the roots (mucky mess). The inexpensive moisture meters work great if you don't want to dig down and feel what is 5-6" down. I bet that is your biggest problem. Feed frequently but very diluted. That is the best way.

TexasTycoon · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirrel789

It almost looks like there are some tiny green aphids in the underside of the leaf in the third pic down on the left. Its really hard to see well enough to tell though. Not sure about the critters in the first couple of pics, but there are some great threads and links to resources in the pests/diseases section of the forum that might help.

Also, I think MG potting mix usually has a slow release fertilizer already in it, and so that plus the other fertilizers may be pushing it. I'm no expert, just a newbie with container gardening myself, I've learned that when it comes to fertilizing, too much is almost always far worse than not enough. Looks like of like some leaves are a little burned around the edges and maybe something has been chewing on the other ones (with the circular patterns), if it's not that, it could be the initial phases of a fungal issue? Sorry, I guess that's probably not specific enough to be much help...

I highly suggest you post this is the pests/diseases section of the forum and I bet you'll get plenty of answers/advice there.

Best of luck!

Thanks for responding! Definitely no aphids on this plant - I am the *most* thorough checker for aphids now after they completely decimated two pepper plants I had in an EarthBox earlier this year.

I never even thought about the MG mix having fertilizer already in it! Maybe we'll cut back on the watering can packets and just use the liquid fish once a week instead. Those packets are doing wonders for my flowers, but I guess maybe not so much for my maters.

I'm thinking those spotty leaves might be a fungal issue like you're saying. I'm going to try a milk spray tonight to see if it helps clear that up. No idea what's going on with the rest of the leaves, though I think the holes are just from strong winds knocking them around. I'm thinking of maybe doing a diluted bleach spray a few days after the milk spray to see if the rest of the issues will clear up, but I'm not sure if that's wise.

Tycoon is a determinate variety, and I've read that determinate varieties give up all their fruit at once and then die - is this true? If so, could that be all this is?

TexasTycoon · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

I think the most important thing you need to find out is: is your soil too waterlogged or too dry. Hopefully you did not use the "moisture control" MG potting mix. It holds way too much water and smothers the roots (mucky mess). The inexpensive moisture meters work great if you don't want to dig down and feel what is 5-6" down. I bet that is your biggest problem. Feed frequently but very diluted. That is the best way.

Nope, definitely did not use the moisture control one since I've heard that about it. We just used the regular MG potting mix. The soil does look damp on the surface, and we did have a fungus gnat issue a couple of weeks ago that got taken care of when I added a BT mosquito dunk to the watering can (whoops, probably should have mentioned that in my first post). I'll see if we can check the soil moisture deeper down (which make sense, since it's a self-watering container) when we get home this evening.

Leaves were looking worse this morning, with the yellow splotchiness on more of them and more leaves curling from the sides. I have two ripening tomatoes on the plant, though, and lots more green, so it doesn't seem to be affecting production too terribly much. This was probably not the best year to start gardening, since it's been wetter than ever and everyone in the area is having plant problems that aren't typical at all, but I guess it's too late now!

ginger2778 · June 25, 2015

You have interveinal chlorosis. That is a nutritional deficiency. It can be that all the nutrients are present but the roots are too wet to be able to uptake them, or its too acidic, need a pH optimal around 6.8, or you have a minor element actual deficiency. Iron deficiency causes interveinal chlorosis. ( green veins and yellowing in between). Also, your pots look a bit small, very difficult to keep a container " soil" in good water and nutrient balance when there isn't much to work with.
If these were mine, I would repot with fresh potting mix into larger pots and include dolomite/ lime, at the mix of 1 cup per cu ft., and mix in a good organic fertilizer so you have nutrients and less chance of fert burn. And I would stay away from moisture control potting mix, but would use mix, not potting soil.

zipcode · June 25, 2015

Some of that looks like mechanical damage (the 'burned' parts). Usually happens to me after a strong wind because the leaves collide with each other. The partly yellowing could be the usual magnesium deficiency if only older leaves are affected.
What fertilizer are you using? If organic it's best if you supplement with micronutrients, otherwise problems will arise in containers. I read around this forum complete micronutrients mixes are available in US. Unfortunately couldn't find anything here in Europe which is a problem, I had to buy them separately and apply rather 'blindly'. Epsom salts at least are an absolute must, in the first year growing in containers I had serious problems by mid season. After that I'd say some iron EDTA and some boric acid. The rest are usually not a concern.

TexasTycoon · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger2778

You have interveinal chlorosis. That is a nutritional deficiency. It can be that all the nutrients are present but the roots are too wet to be able to uptake them, or its too acidic, need a pH optimal around 6.8, or you have a minor element actual deficiency. Iron deficiency causes interveinal chlorosis. ( green veins and yellowing in between). Also, your pots look a bit small, very difficult to keep a container " soil" in good water and nutrient balance when there isn't much to work with.
If these were mine, I would repot with fresh potting mix into larger pots and include dolomite/ lime, at the mix of 1 cup per cu ft., and mix in a good organic fertilizer so you have nutrients and less chance of fert burn. And I would stay away from moisture control potting mix, but would use mix, not potting soil.

The pot for this plant isn't pictured, but it's the same as the one the tree is in in the back of the "pullback" shot. It's listed as 14.5 in H x 17 in W x 17 in D on the Lowe's site, looks like this one but black: http://www.lowes.com/pd_485130-42801...=50148332&pl=1 Is that really too small? With all the people I see growing out of 5 gallon buckets and Walmart shopping bags, I thought this was a decent size for one plant. I'm not sure I can fit anything bigger on the patio, haha.

Edited to add: Also, thank you!! I think you are right on the money with interveinal chlorosis - that's EXACTLY what my leaves look like when I google it!

TexasTycoon · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

Some of that looks like mechanical damage (the 'burned' parts). Usually happens to me after a strong wind because the leaves collide with each other. The partly yellowing could be the usual magnesium deficiency if only older leaves are affected.
What fertilizer are you using? If organic it's best if you supplement with micronutrients, otherwise problems will arise in containers. I read around this forum complete micronutrients mixes are available in US. Unfortunately couldn't find anything here in Europe which is a problem, I had to buy them separately and apply rather 'blindly'. Epsom salts at least are an absolute must, in the first year growing in containers I had serious problems by mid season. After that I'd say some iron EDTA and some boric acid. The rest are usually not a concern.

We have been alternating each week between the Miracle Gro Watering Can Singles (http://www.miraclegro.com/smg/goprod...ood/prod140018) which are listed as 24-8-16, and a couple of tablespoons of Liquid Fish (http://www.amazon.com/Maxicrop-Liqui.../dp/B000COBUYE) mixed into the 2 gallon watering can (no, the tomato doesn't get all two gallons - a lot of that water also goes to our other plants including a Satsuma mandarin tree which is loving the liquid fish), and just plain watering every other day or so, depending on how wet the soil looks.

I have a bag of Epsom salt that I have been wanting to use, but can't figure out the best way to use it - should it be mixed in with the water or applied as a foliar spray?

zipcode · June 25, 2015

If you identify the problem as magnesium deficiency, apply some foliar now. For the future, add it in soil. Something like 1/2 spoon every month.

TexasTycoon · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by zipcode

If you identify the problem as magnesium deficiency, apply some foliar now. For the future, add it in soil. Something like 1/2 spoon every month.

Will do as soon as I get home this evening. Thanks for the help! I looked at some images of tomatoes with magnesium deficiency and I think that's definitely the issue. Either way, Epsom salt can't really hurt!

ginger2778 · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTycoon

Will do as soon as I get home this evening. Thanks for the help! I looked at some images of tomatoes with magnesium deficiency and I think that's definitely the issue. Either way, Epsom salt can't really hurt!

The pictures of magnesium deficiency do look like your plant.

TexasTycoon · June 25, 2015

Should I remove the damaged leaves (which now is looking like most of them) or will they recover with the Epsom foliar spray? I'm not seeing any new growth, I thik this plant is as big as it's gonna get (which is pretty dang big).

ginger2778 · June 25, 2015

I think you should leave them, they most likely will recover.

Sojourner · June 25, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTycoon

The pot for this plant isn't pictured, but it's the same as the one the tree is in in the back of the "pullback" shot. It's listed as 14.5 in H x 17 in W x 17 in D on the Lowe's site, looks like this one but black: http://www.lowes.com/pd_485130-42801...=50148332&pl=1 Is that really too small? With all the people I see growing out of 5 gallon buckets and Walmart shopping bags, I thought this was a decent size for one plant. I'm not sure I can fit anything bigger on the patio, haha.

Edited to add: Also, thank you!! I think you are right on the money with interveinal chlorosis - that's EXACTLY what my leaves look like when I google it!

IMO that's a little small for a tomatoes - but bigger than a 5 gallon bucket, so not horrible. Check your Lows for some 25 to 26" pots on sale for $9 - I got 8 of these the day before yesterday, maybe they have them on clearance at your local Lows too.If you can find them, use those for tomatoes next year.

I noted the interveinal chlorosis as well. If you're not overwatering, its more likely that may be a magnesium deficiency than an iron deficiency, tomatoes are prone to a bit of that. An application of epsom salts could clear that right up and it won't hurt.

June 25, 2015	#2
squirrel789 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: SW Missouri Zone 6b Posts: 121	It almost looks like there are some tiny green aphids in the underside of the leaf in the third pic down on the left. Its really hard to see well enough to tell though. Not sure about the critters in the first couple of pics, but there are some great threads and links to resources in the pests/diseases section of the forum that might help. Also, I think MG potting mix usually has a slow release fertilizer already in it, and so that plus the other fertilizers may be pushing it. I'm no expert, just a newbie with container gardening myself, I've learned that when it comes to fertilizing, too much is almost always far worse than not enough. Looks like of like some leaves are a little burned around the edges and maybe something has been chewing on the other ones (with the circular patterns), if it's not that, it could be the initial phases of a fungal issue? Sorry, I guess that's probably not specific enough to be much help... I highly suggest you post this is the pests/diseases section of the forum and I bet you'll get plenty of answers/advice there. Best of luck!

June 25, 2015	#3
Ed of Somis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Somis, Ca Posts: 649	I think the most important thing you need to find out is: is your soil too waterlogged or too dry. Hopefully you did not use the "moisture control" MG potting mix. It holds way too much water and smothers the roots (mucky mess). The inexpensive moisture meters work great if you don't want to dig down and feel what is 5-6" down. I bet that is your biggest problem. Feed frequently but very diluted. That is the best way.

June 25, 2015	#6
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	You have interveinal chlorosis. That is a nutritional deficiency. It can be that all the nutrients are present but the roots are too wet to be able to uptake them, or its too acidic, need a pH optimal around 6.8, or you have a minor element actual deficiency. Iron deficiency causes interveinal chlorosis. ( green veins and yellowing in between). Also, your pots look a bit small, very difficult to keep a container " soil" in good water and nutrient balance when there isn't much to work with. If these were mine, I would repot with fresh potting mix into larger pots and include dolomite/ lime, at the mix of 1 cup per cu ft., and mix in a good organic fertilizer so you have nutrients and less chance of fert burn. And I would stay away from moisture control potting mix, but would use mix, not potting soil.

June 25, 2015	#7
zipcode Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Romania/Germany , z 4-6 Posts: 1,582	Some of that looks like mechanical damage (the 'burned' parts). Usually happens to me after a strong wind because the leaves collide with each other. The partly yellowing could be the usual magnesium deficiency if only older leaves are affected. What fertilizer are you using? If organic it's best if you supplement with micronutrients, otherwise problems will arise in containers. I read around this forum complete micronutrients mixes are available in US. Unfortunately couldn't find anything here in Europe which is a problem, I had to buy them separately and apply rather 'blindly'. Epsom salts at least are an absolute must, in the first year growing in containers I had serious problems by mid season. After that I'd say some iron EDTA and some boric acid. The rest are usually not a concern.

June 25, 2015	#13
TexasTycoon Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2015 Location: Round Rock, TX, Zone 8b Posts: 1,157	Should I remove the damaged leaves (which now is looking like most of them) or will they recover with the Epsom foliar spray? I'm not seeing any new growth, I thik this plant is as big as it's gonna get (which is pretty dang big).