Fertilization?

[feldon30]

Based on some searches at GW, I am seeing 3 popular suggestions for fertilization with peppers:

• Put enough compost in your potting soil and you won't need any
• Osmocote 14-14-14 or Miracle Gro 15-30-15 at half strength
• Water in the transplants and then foliar feed on a weekly basis with kelp/fish emulsion

Just curious if there is an "Earl's hole planting method" that applies to peppers?

[mdvpc]

Feldon-I use tomato tone on my eggplants and peppers as well as tomatoes. Its an Espoma product.

[feldon30]

Earl's "hole planting method" is what I used for my tomatoes.

• Dig out about 1 1/2 - 2 cubic feet of soil into a wheelbarrow. Add:
• 3/4 cup TomatoTone (4-7-10)
• 3/4 cup Bone Meal (0-10-0)
• 3/4 cup Epsom Salt
• 10 lbs premium composted cow manure, or sheep or rabbit manure
• 20 lbs of soil conditioner (sandy soil full of peat, pine bark mulch, etc. to loosen up clay soils)
• Mix throughly and return all of this to the hole.
• Transplant deep so just the top leaves are showing.
• Lightly tamp down the soil and make a "well" about 1' across so water is retained.
• Mulch
• Sprinkle a bit more TomatoTone on top.

The end result should be the roots growing in a nice ball and always having access to exactly the nutrients they need. I posted some pictures in the Houston Progress thread.

So just curious if there is a particular nutrient that peppers can benefit from in a container? I do add some pelletized Lime at the suggestion of Suze and some others to counteract the acidity of peat moss and also to boost calcium.

One container formula I saw was 20% each of: Peat Moss, Sand, Sheep/Cow Manure, Potting Soil, Crushed Pecan Shells.

[spyfferoni]

Feldon,
I planted my peppers and tomatoes the same---a modified version of Earl's method. (We have alkaline soil.) My peppers did great. They did better last year than ever. I think they really like the bone meal. I was told not to add lime or epsom salt to my soil, so I added peat moss, compost, bone meal, and
some 5-10-10 fertilizer, and that is about it. They were planted in the ground though, so I'm not sure how it would work for containers. I've read that many folks put dolomite in their containers---I'm not even sure what it does. If I ever garden in containers I'll be sure to google it.

Tyff

[Suze]

Originally Posted by feldon30

One container formula I saw was 20% each of: Peat Moss, Sand, Sheep/Cow Manure, Potting Soil, Crushed Pecan Shells.

I would suggest not adding any of the ingredients you have listed above, besides the peat moss. Compost will make the mix heavier (something you don't want in Houston), sand - while free draining *in theory*, doesn't have much space between particles, so is not an ideal medium for root development.

Pecan shells, not necessary, and will make a mess later on when you've got to figure out what to do with the spent mix. If it's got shells in it, you can't easily spread it on your lawn, use it in your ornamental beds, etc...

I prefer Pro-Mix or Jungle Growth as a container medium for vegetables (or something similar). That would be something mostly peat based, with some vermiculite and perlite added. I've also added pine bark fines to the mix before.

For each ten gallons of potting medium, I add one cup of slow release pelletized fertilizer (this year it was Vigoro 12-10-5 because it was on sale), and one cup of pelletized lime. Incorporate amendments into the medium in a wheelbarrow. That's it.

Yes, that sounds like a lot of nitrogen. But I've found it's not when it comes to container growing. Much of what is added is lost to watering.

With tomatoes, every couple of weeks after the plants set fruit, I scatter another handful of the slow release fert into the containers around the plants. Also, once the plants have cropped once, i.e., produced that first flush of ripe fruit, I give all the containers a handful of dolomitic lime.

With peppers, I'm more conservative in feeding them. I only add lime once more (mid-season), and they get more slow release fert about once a month.

Here's an excellent thread on container growing that I recommend you read:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/...112896.html?17

As a side note, good choice on putting a few plants in containers. Now you can overwinter them should you choose to.

[honu]

I agree w/ Suze. My peppers were happiest in pots with regular potting mix, added cinder or perlite to keep the mix loose and roots aerated, some lime, and slow release (5-6 months) Nutricote. I tried composted steer manure in pots once, and it was a disaster -- turned everything to mash and suffocated the roots. Good drainage and root aeration were most important for my peppers.

[feldon30]

Suze,

Er, I see the actual advice about container soils was posted by tapla. I do hope jdwhitaker joins us at SETTFest regardless.

It tells me that it's not just what goodies you add, but the size of the particles. It seems that adding sand to containers will largely backfire. And honu, I will take your advice and skip the composted manure (glad I didn't plant any peppers yesterday!).

I wonder if adding a vertical PVC tube with holes drilled would solve some of the drainage problem. Anyway, I will "keep it simple" and find some Pro-Mix.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by feldon30

Er, I see the actual advice about container soils was posted by tapla.

Er, I know. That thread has been going on a looong time; I think I even asked some questions in the original incarnation of it. If memory serves, one of my questions was about wicking/making wicks for containers.

Originally Posted by feldon30

It tells me that it's not just what goodies you add, but the size of the particles.

Right -- that's one reason reusing potting mix isn't recommended. As the mix gets older, of course, the particles break down.

Disease (with vegetables) is another obvious reason.

Originally Posted by feldon30

I wonder if adding a vertical PVC tube with holes drilled would solve some of the drainage problem. Anyway, I will "keep it simple" and find some Pro-Mix.

There you go. Fresh Pro-Mix only gets so wet (even in the bottom of a container), so seeking out creative ways to increase drainage is probably more effort than it is worth.

But do read about wicking in that post if you haven't -- the reason I decided against even bothering with it is I am not going to elevate containers containing huge tomato plants with the winds we have here. Peppers may be another story.

[feldon30]

Well I found a 2 cu ft block of Pro-Mix ($12? ouch!) and a 40 lb bag of pine bark that looked good and did not have any strange odors.

Hopefully that will fill or come close to filling my two 15 gallon containers. They are on the tall side which is good as far as giving lots of root space.

I guess I am going to give some variation on Earl's method as far as fertilization (TomatoTone, Bone Meal, Epsom Salt), and do a whole cup of dolimitic lime for each of the two containers to counteract the acidity and help with calcium.

[jdwhitaker]

That thread at GW has been going on for a while now--about two years. The first thread had reached the maximum number of posts last year, and I asked Al (tapla) if he was going to repost. He refused--but said I could do it myself if I wanted. Now it's on its third leg--and will probably continue.

Pine bark is the best thing I've found for container soils in Texas. It's basically a local waste product (from the East Texas lumber mills) is very inexpensive, and a perfect base for a container soil since it holds water well but doesn't break down quickly like peat and compost. The fast draining mix seems like it will bring about disaster when you see the water run right through it and forsee the long hot summer, but actually I've found plants growing in it to be just as drought tolerant as those in a peat based mix. Probably the better root systems in a well aerated mix that help out.

I probably won't be able to make it to SETTFEST, but you never know--might get motivated and point my truck in that direction.

Jason

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by Suze

...That's one reason reusing potting mix isn't recommended. As the mix gets older, of course, the particles break down.

The Pro-Mix ($12 for 4 cu ft uncompressed) plus Pine Bark ($2) looks like it's going to yield about 50 gallons potting mix. If I plant each plant in a 4 gallon pot, or 4 plants in a 15 gallon pot, that's about $1 of soil per plant. Plus about $1 of amendments. Plus $1 for the transplant. $3 per plant.

The addition of pine bark and other large, light goodies (perhaps shredded leaves, dried straw, etc.) will hopefully allow me to use the soil for 2-3 years.

Originally Posted by jdwhitaker

I probably won't be able to make it to SETTFEST, but you never know--might get motivated and point my truck in that direction.

I know I'll be disappointed if you can't make it. You have posted a lot of great advice here and on GW. And I read in another thread that you are growing 500 FEET of garden? What varieties?

[tjg911]

I did not read anything but your initial post, I'm trying to cut back here at work.

From my organic gardening book on fertilizing peppers -
Plants require 1" of water per week especially from flowering thru harvest. Critical time to fertilize is 3 weeks after transplanting and after 1st fruit set. Then fertilize every 2 weeks with Neptune's Harvest Fish and Seaweed emulsion (my choice).

For the 1st time last summer I followed this watering and fertilizing method plus I also mulched the plants with straw about July 4th to retain moisture and shade the roots to keep the ground cooler. I grew just 6 'Gypsy' plants for the 3rd year (year 1 and 2 I had 12 each year).

The yields were ASTOUNDING BEYOND BELIEF. It was a horrible summer (the worst ever for tomatoes) from mid August thru September - too cool even cold and very wet. Now that may have added to the beyond belief yields on these 6 pepper plants since peppers actually like cooler summers. One plant produced at least 40 red peppers it may have been 50 and that's double my normal yields with Gypsy. I was frying red peppers and eating them excessively just to keep up with production. Hey it was a difficult job but someone had to do it!

No doubt I'll be growing Gypsy again and doing exactly the same as last summer.

Tom

[feldon30]

Interesting. I just bought a bottle of Maxicrop but if I see Neptune's Harvest I will grab some. Maxicrop has very low numbers compared to Neptune's Harvest.

[jdwhitaker]

And I read in another thread that you are growing 500 FEET of garden? What varieties?

10 rows @ 50 ft each. Corn and Blackeye Peas will take up a lot of space, as well as a few melons, some okra, green beans, squash and cucumbers. The tomatoes will be sprawlers--so I'll only be able to squeeze in about 40 plants.

I've seen your garden plan Feldon, and have an idea on how to expand your growing space. Just for kicks--how many cu. ft. of topsoil would it take to fill that pool?

Also, I have made some excellent container soil with a 3:1 ratio of pine bark to pro mix. I wouldn't add any straw or leaves to a container soil--they would break down quickly and clog everything up.

This years tomato and pepper varieties...

Peppers 2007:
Corno di Toro
Jalapeno
Giant aconagua
Tepin
Karma Bell
Golden Bell
Tequila Bell
Big Bertha Bell
Ancho
Big Jim
Joe E Parker
TAM Jalapeno
Fish
Red Lamuyo
Numex Sunset
Serrano
Banana
Jupiter Bell
Sport
Peter Pepper
Habanero


TOMATO 2007:
bloody butcher
porter's pride
juane flamee
bellestar
merced f2
sioux
campbell's 1327
homestead
porter
peron
arkansas traveler
black
brandywine red
azoychka
persimmon
pruden's purple
carnival
cherokee purple
kellog's breakfast
green zebra
opalka
magnus
little lucky
red cherry large
snow white cherry
little brandywine
black cherry
bush champion
bush celebrity
Kimberley
Superbush
Marianna’s Peace
Better Boy
Spitfire
Gina
Nota
Budyonovka
Malinowy Ozarowski
Delicious
Roma
Spitfire

Jason

[feldon30]

Originally Posted by jdwhitaker

10 rows @ 50 ft each. Corn and Blackeye Peas will take up a lot of space, as well as a few melons, some okra, green beans, squash and cucumbers. The tomatoes will be sprawlers--so I'll only be able to squeeze in about 40 plants.

Don't suppose that corn would be ready by June 16th? (greedy look)

Originally Posted by jdwhitaker

I've seen your garden plan Feldon, and have an idea on how to expand your growing space. Just for kicks--how many cu. ft. of topsoil would it take to fill that pool?

You're the first one to suggest this! NOT. The pool is the price I pay for gardening the rest of the yard. And I can't imagine not having the pool. Once I get hot, I hold that temperature for a long time, even after I come inside. Diving into the deep end every hour or so is the only way I can counteract the dizziness and even nausea I get from being outside too long.

Interesting mix of tomato varieties you've got there. A really broad range. A lot of safe bets but also some taste blockbusters. I wish I could sprawl, but between the squirrels and torrential rains I wouldn't get a single tomato.