Fermentations and ambient temps

[Ruth_10]

Is there a maximum ambient temperature beyond which one should not attempt to ferment tomato seeds?

I would like to do this outside, but it has been and will be 100F +/- a few degrees this coming week. Inside temp is 82-83 F but some people (read: DH) would rather not be doing this on the kitchen counter.

[Lee]

Inside temp is 82-83 F but some people (read: DH) would rather not be doing this on the kitchen counter.

I do mine in the kitchen near the sink.... fortunately DW hasn't flushed any stinky
mess down the drain... yet....

Add some Potpourri and the smell is masked pretty well... plus by the time the mixture starts getting funky... is when you're done!

Lee

[nctomatoman]

I ferment the seeds in my garage - and temps surely hit 100 or over at times. What I find is that it speeds things up - in fact, I've not let any of my fermentations go over 3 days this summer, since the fungus layers formed quickly. In all cases (nearly 100), the gel was broken down - all my seeds are a good pale color (some years I get fermentations and produce dark seeds, though they germinate well).

[Ruth_10]

I ferment the seeds in my garage - and temps surely hit 100 or over at times.

If your garage is anything like mine, it's like a blast furnace. I usually do mine on the front porch--not that many people come to our front door--but it has been 100-105 F for the past week or so (ugh) and that seemed pretty dar n hot

I was looking at the Jeff McCormack site and he says temps less than 80 degF are needed or else germination rates go down. Obviously not.8) He also says to stir the fermentation. I recall a discussion on GW about this and we don't want to repeat it here.

I have mine going inside the house, which is at 83 deg.F and the fungus layer formed quickly. I worked several up after 48 h. Two were fine but the third one was not done (the seeds were still attached to a lot of plant matter even though there was a good fungus layer). That was probably the first one I've done that wasn't done, but then again I usually let them go about 72 h. I plan to let the remainder go another day and then work them up as well.

[nctomatoman]

OK - got some real data (and more will be coming). As I said above, this blast furnace summer has led to most of my fermentations (done in my garage, no stirring, 3 days max fermentation time) occurring in searing temperatures - likely 100 degrees or more during the afternoons.

We are getting some data - sent some seed to Marge for the dwarf project, and she got 21/22 seeds germinated (greater than 95%). Patrina just planted many of my saved seed, and Grub will soon as well - so within a few weeks we will have a pretty comprehensive set of data on the fate of seed that is fermented in the 100 degree range.

The initial data from Marge is encouraging.

[phreddy]

I am new to fermenting seed and was told 3 days - no more, no less otherwise black seed which is no good!
I left mine perhaps an extra half day and discarded the black seed. How critical is this process? Should I aim for 72 hours? Is there some authoritive source?

Also , what is DH? I realise to whom one is alluding but what are the actual words?

Phreddy

[Suze]

Originally Posted by phreddy

I am new to fermenting seed and was told 3 days - no more, no less otherwise black seed which is no good!
I left mine perhaps an extra half day and discarded the black seed. How critical is this process? Should I aim for 72 hours? Is there some authoritive source?

Also, what is DH? I realise to whom one is alluding but what are the actual words?

DH = darling husband.

I don't think one can necessarily put a day limit on fermentations because it can vary; for one, I've found that temperatures are a major factor. It usually takes three days or thereabouts for me, but I've had it take a little longer when it is cooler.

I don't stir seeds, nor do I add any extra water. I've also sometimes left seeds fermenting for a day or two beyond when they were probably ready with no problems.

Did you happen to notice if seeds were discolored at all when you began the fermentation?

For your seeds to turn black after only three and a half days suggests another cause. A couple of possibilities that occur to me might include internal BER, some sort of rot (bacterial or fungal) that had already affected the seeds.

I do sometimes put mine in the garage here for up to three or four days (max) with no problems, and it can get kind of hot.

[amideutch]

phreddy, I guess ambient temperature could be a factor in the length of time you allow seeds to ferment. I put my seeds with a little added water in a clean jar and set the lid on top. Don,t tighten the lid just set on top of the jar. I set my jars on top of my kitchen cabinets and leave them there from 7-10 days. The temperature in my kitchen is between 20-23C. I then dump them into a sieve, rinse, clean in a solution of TSP (TriSodiumPhosphate), rinse again and set out to dry on paper plates again on top of my kitchen cabinets. Why on top of my kitchen cabinets? They are out of harms way and I don't need to worry about any accidents, human or animal. Ami

[phreddy]

Thank you ladies. I will see what happens this year or maybe I will just get a couple of toms locally and use them - I am in Thailand for our winter holiday so temp no problem.

I had D Half for the DH solution, OH and BH are commonly used in England (Other and Better)

Phreddy

[amideutch]

Your welcome. Ami aka Ted aka Theodor

[PaulF]

Now that the high temps are a thing of the past, how about minimum temperatures? I imagine bugs won't do their thing below maybe the 50sF? I guess it will be in the house somewhere for the late pot of green zebra X black plum F1 I was growing out for a friend who didn't think he could handle seed saving quite yet. I always do my fermenting in the heat in the garage and have not saved so late (or early, maybe).

Phreddy, when you see my daughter and son-in-law in Phuket this week be sure to say hello. They are vacationing also. They are at the Hilton Arcadia. You'll know my daughter, she's a real tomato just like her mother.

[phreddy]

Not in Phuket I'm afraid but Koh Samui, other side of the peninsula(sp). Otherwise I'd be glad to oblige.