Black leaf tips. Mold?
 

Just when I thought I was off to a great start, nearly all of my earthtainer tomatoes have something happening and I'd appreciate your insights. As you can see from the posted picture, some of the leaf tips are turning black and eventually they crisp and die. I mistakenly thought this was a result of the howling north winds and 39 degree temps recently and the leaves getting slammed into the cages over and over again. However, now I think that is not it as some new growth is now affected...see the upper left most portion of the picture for the small dried/dead leaves.

Is this a mold? Doesn't look like the molds I've had before. I have some insects, but nothing rampant I see...mostly aphids. Thinking it might be some disease, I hit them hard with Excel G and actinovate this morning early and we shall see. Another concern is that it appears some of the blossoms are affected (see the two in the middle of the screen with browning on the tips of the green part that holds the flowers. How is that every year there seems to be something new to deal with? Any suggestions as to what it is and how to deal with it greatly appreciated!

Dewayne mater

I would have thought it was wind damage too. I'm sorry about your tomatoes, I hope this turns out to be nothing and they bounce back. Sorry I can't offer any help or advice since this is my first year growing tomatoes. I hope those with more experience can chime in.

I'm not sure but my toms look like that. They were fine untill we 50 mph cold wind 10 days ago. Now my CP looks like that with some broken limbs. Some of the leaves have turned black . I took them off . Then the end of last week another cold front came through with 40mph winds. It was down in the 40's at night for 2 nights. I lost all the bloom when this time of year I should have lots of them. I hope it starts up again. It look's like the cold weather may be over. We don't have cold weather like that this time of year. The one CP that was ready to be pick tasted like a tomato from HEB . I hope the rest do better.

Additional pictures. Now what is going on?
 

Upon deciding that I was dealing with a fungal issue of some kind, yesterday morning I sprayed a combo of Exel LG and Actinovate. Exel says it is a systemic fungicide, so it seemed worth a shot. By evening, some of my plants looked like those in the two attached pictures. As you can see, a lot of leaf browning took place. The plants with the most leaf browning were those that were most affected by what I believe is a fungal issue. The plants that I thought showed no signs of the fungal issue only have 2 or 3 leaves with this type of leaf browning.

Questions: Is this browning the action of Exel? I've used this product for 3 years and not had a reaction like this. Still, the leaf browning looks similar to when I sprayed Bill's bleach solution in reaction to a mold problem a year or two ago.

Did I burn the leaves by over application? I did use a new Solo sprayer (LOVE IT!) but I did follow the dilution suggestions on the Exel bottle.

What to do next? Thinking about a foliar feed followed by daconil 12 hours later. Any input appreciated!

Dewayne Mater

Dewayne,

Fairly rare, but check out the symptoms of CMM (bacterial canker) and see if they fit what you are seeing.
One link is [URL="http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.lincolnu.edu/c/document_library/get_file%3Fuuid%3D585aefcc-b271-46d3-878e-0ab895232094%26groupId%3D145912&sa=U&ei=5Y2KUeP7Oo3lygHD74B4&ved=0CBwQFjAB&sig2=7mLBbirFzTWEhNsWKk8fLA&usg=AFQjCNHkJ8KBL5jnb1NWKc_Uw9_7e33Huw"]http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.lincolnu.edu/c/document_library/get_file%3Fuuid%3D585aefcc-b271-46d3-878e-0ab895232094%26groupId%3D145912&sa=U&ei=5Y2KUeP7Oo3lygHD74B4&ved=0CBwQFjAB&sig2=7mLBbirFzTWEhNsWKk8fLA&usg=AFQjCNHkJ8KBL5jnb1NWKc_Uw9_7e33Huw[/URL]

I sent you a PM.

Steve

Thanks Steve PM'd you back. Wondering if this is leaf burn from application of Excel LG. The browning up of a lot of leaves happened very quickly, within 12 hours of spraying, so that is a pretty good indicator that Excel had something to do with it. One question I have though is did the Excel LG cause this to healthy leaves or is this a reaction of already diseased leaves to the product? If it is the later, then the leaves were doomed anyway and this just sped up the process. If the former, well, I really screwed up!

Dewayne,
While I would not completely rule out a product burn, I think with molds and mildews, it is generally more widespread than is at first visible to the eye. It all gets wiped out when you spray and the leaves look much worse than we think they should.
I have observed similar reactions using Greencure and I think that is one of the more innocuous products.
The Exel certainly had something to do with it - killing the mold or the leaves! And I don't think I am surprised that you are observing a big difference in 12 hours.
It is kind of a lose, lose as you really won't know either way. As long as the patients survive it becomes a win though!

Hi Dewayne,
Funny you should post pics that look similar to some of my plants. Although I don't use Excel, I thought perhaps I had burned them with fish emulsion, or if it was that wind and cold snap from last week. Now I'm thinking I do need to hit them with fungicide.
Susan

First you have to determine if you have an insect problem on the bottom of the leaves (mites, aphids etc...). They can fool you into thinking you have a disease issue if you are only looking from the top. Spraying anything on leaves that are in a weakened state can just aggravate the symptoms and not solve a thing.

Susan - I'm sorry to hear that! Which pics resemble yours, the first or the 2nd and 3rd?

Not too suprisingly, we run into similar problems. If it is fungal, I'll bet it blew in here on the 40-50 mph north winds we had for about 48 hours last week. I'd concluded probably fungal prior to spraying the Exel LG and I think that may still be a good conclusion. Exel is one of the only systemic fungicides, so that is why I chose it. The bigger bummer is one plant that had several trusses of huge flowers, but now seems like none of those flowers are viable. I'm not gonna beat myself up because the plants that are very protected from winds got the same spraying and they show only a very small amount of leaf browning today.

Ray - there are some insects to be sure, but not a huge number of any type. I've seen some aphids and what I think are my first few spider mites. Neither has a large population because I've been vigilant with neem, insecticidal soap and when that wasn't doing enough, one does of Take Down. I do worry about whether what looks like an aphid could actually be a psyllid...which can lead to bad things. But, not really seeing any purple veins or the white sticky stuff they leave behind, so I don't think that insects are the issue.

Barring some other insights, I'm still thinking fungal and think I'll spray a liquid fertilizer like Texas tomato food or fish/seaweed, then 24 hours later hit them with daconil to try to prevent further spread. Good luck Susan. Really appreciate all the replies! Feel free to keep them coming.

Dewayne

I would have said the first picture was simply mechanical damage/injury from the wind. The subsequent photo's look like chemical burning from whatever was sprayed on the leaves There will be no improvement or recovery to normal in the damaged foliage from subsequent fertilizers applied *the already injured foliage will not look better no matter what you do. damaged leaves and plant tissues will not "heal" and return to a healthy green. the best that can be hoped for in this case is that new growth will be healthy. the damaged foliage needs to pruned off. unfortunately, most of the foliage is damaged.
sorry to be blunt but it's not looking very good here for a good outcome.
:(
Karen

Karen - I can take a blunt truthful answer - thanks! I decided it was not mechanical because of two things, one, some plants that I put in the garage during the entire wind event developed the same issues and symptoms as in the first picture (black leaf tips that eventually spread and kill the leaves). Also, even after the wind ended, new leaves were coming out that also had the black tip issue. I still can't be 100%, but, that was my reasoning process for why this was something other than mechanical. I don't have an insect infestation (sure some insects good and bad) and that left infectious processes as the culprit, of which there are several possibilities.

It is likely that I burned the plants with too much Exel, though I still can't figure out why my tainer plants were burned significantly, whereas my in ground plants only ever so slightly? The good news is I showed the absolute worst of the worst in the pictures for demonstration and the rest of the plants don't have the same extent of browning/burning as shown, well less than 1/2 of the plant affected. This could be 100% human error, but, I think there is a component of something else going on and it may be that the other issue that I think is fungal magnified the affects of Exel.

Next time, I will definitely use a much lighter dose of Excel G and hopefully, not have this issue again. Lesson learned.

Dewayne mater

Dewayne, pics 2 & 3 most resemble what I'm dealing with. I pulled a good number of low branches last night that were wilted and curled, with black tips. And I'm also seeing some early blight. Bugs are not an issue yet, I've been checking the undersides of leaves every day.

Dewayne I also am having the same problem...black tip at start then leaf edge turns brown and spreads into the leaf. Have sprayed with B54red's bleach solution and greencure 4 times in last 5 days because of continuing rain. Have removed lots of damaged leaves. New growth looks to developing same black tip on some of the leaves but seems to have stopped spreading. What is it and how do I treat it? Would attach pictures if I could figure out how to overcome the security token error message when I try.

Thanks RWG

RWG: I may can help you on the posting. I believe the problem is your browser has to be set to accept cookies. Try making that change and see if it helps.

Maybe pics will help. Maybe not. As you can see in this post alone, there are some varied opinions as to whether this is nothing but a little wind damage, insect related, fungal in nature, chemical burn (Exel LG), or a combination of the above. In other words, just about anything it could ever be has been suggested in just 14 posts (this being 15).

Ultimately, you have to make your own judgments on the best info you can get. That's what I try to do and through the years, that has worked extremely well. On this occasion, it looks like I may well have over done a good thing and caused new problems or aggravated existing ones.

FYI: I first tried typically helpful sights like A&M problem solver, (two others from CA and CO), searching here, and google image searches. I never found anything that matches very closely the original problem, which it sounds like you may have too. I would point out again that in the upper left corner of the first pic, you can see a new leaf that is entirely black...that was without question a leaf that was not mechanically harmed into looking that way and that type of leaf damage was spreading daily. I will continue to look for definitive diagnosis, but, my m.o. is to figure out as best I can what it is and then act quickly. If you over analyze to the point of paralysis, you can end up with an unwinnable situation by waiting too long.

Dewayne mater

[QUOTE=Dewayne mater;346609]RWG: I may can help you on the posting. I believe the problem is your browser has to be set to accept cookies. Try making that change and see if it helps.

Maybe pics will help. Maybe not. As you can see in this post alone, there are some varied opinions as to whether this is nothing but a little wind damage, insect related, fungal in nature, chemical burn (Exel LG), or a combination of the above. In other words, just about anything it could ever be has been suggested in just 14 posts (this being 15).

Ultimately, you have to make your own judgments on the best info you can get. That's what I try to do and through the years, that has worked extremely well. On this occasion, it looks like I may well have over done a good thing and caused new problems or aggravated existing ones.

FYI: I first tried typically helpful sights like A&M problem solver, (two others from CA and CO), searching here, and google image searches. I never found anything that matches very closely the original problem, which it sounds like you may have too. I would point out again that in the upper left corner of the first pic, you can see a new leaf that is entirely black...that was without question a leaf that was not mechanically harmed into looking that way and that type of leaf damage was spreading daily. I will continue to look for definitive diagnosis, but, my m.o. is to figure out as best I can what it is and then act quickly. If you over analyze to the point of paralysis, you can end up with an unwinnable situation by waiting too long.

Dewayne mater[/QUOTE]
I to have new growth that is showing some of the black tip and then leaf edge browning. The back of the leaf has a noticeable problem as well. I will set my browser and try again to attach the pictures. I feel that I definitely have a unknown to me problem that I can not seem
to correct.

Thanks RWG

I hope the pictures are attached

RWG

I'm sorry you are having such troubles with your beautiful plants. I would be quite upset. Something I see a lot of people do when they begin to develop a problem is that they tend to leave the diseased foliage on the plant and sort of wait to see if it gets worse, which it generally will. At that point, folks will begin using a spray of whatever type in an effort to cure the problem but leaving the diseased foliage on the plant. I t is my opinion that spraying anything on diseased foliage will not fix anything. in fact may serve to spread the problem. the goal of spraying is not to heal diseased foliage but to prevent the spread to healthy parts and other plants. removal and proper disposal of diseased parts is the first thing to do, at the first sign of a problem.
I hope things turn out well for you in the end as we need to remember that the goal here isn't to grow leaves but nice big tomatoes :)
good luck
Karen O

[QUOTE=KarenO;346614]I'm sorry you are having such troubles with your beautiful plants. I would be quite upset. Something I see a lot of people do when they begin to develop a problem is that they tend to leave the diseased foliage on the plant and sort of wait to see if it gets worse, which it generally will. At that point, folks will begin using a spray of whatever type in an effort to cure the problem but leaving the diseased foliage on the plant. I t is my opinion that spraying anything on diseased foliage will not fix anything. in fact may serve to spread the problem. the goal of spraying is not to heal diseased foliage but to prevent the spread to healthy parts and other plants. removal and proper disposal of diseased parts is the first thing to do, at the first sign of a problem.
I hope things turn out well for you in the end as we need to remember that the goal here isn't to grow leaves but nice big tomatoes :)
good luck
Karen O[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the encouragment...I have been just tasting those wonderful tomatoes in my
imagination since last fall. I have been removing the diseased foliage as I discover it. There still seems to be infection on new growth tips randomly though. Do you have an idea of what this is?

Thanks RWG

I looked at your newest pictures, try to look up "leaf scorch" or "leaf tip burn" on tomatoes. not really a disease but caused usually by root damage from too much fertlizer (Nitrogen)and/or water. wish i could be more helpful. keep tryin!
KarenO

Thank you so much...I went to google and found a forum discussing leaf tip burn with a photo
that could have come from my garden or greenhouse it so accurately showed my problem...just like the picture from Dewayne mater. And lucky for me Dr. Carolyn diagnosed the problem for the guy.....just as you suggested too much nitrogen or overwatering. I believe that is going to be it. Will stop feeding and see what happens.

Thanks RWG

I've been using Bonide Fun-onil concentrate (same active ingredient, chlorothalonil, as Daconil). Way back on the instructions under Fruit and Nut Tree Diseases, it says: DO NOT apply Bonide Fung-onil Multi-purpose Fungicide within one week before or after application of oil or oil-based pesticide. It doesn't give this same warning under Garden Vegetable Diseases, but I'm wondering if there wasn't some interaction between Daconil and the neem and Take Down? Have you used chlorothalonil within this 7 day window?

My only other thought was to make sure ingredients are measured separately and don't rely on the sprayer measurement markers or the ones on any of the products. Use separate measuring utensils.

Hope your plants recover.

D&D - thank you for that excellent insight! That remains a possibility as takedown definitely has oils and Exel could have interacted with it, but, it had been at least a week between the spraying of those two. I don't think that was it, but you caused me to go back and look at all I'd done one more time. I'm now 99% certain that I burned the plants using too much Exel LG. I got into trouble because of not being careful enough with measurements. My old hand sprayer was the one gallon type. My new one from Solo is a 2 liter. (Love it by the way). The old eyeball the amount you put in just isn't precise enough in a 2 liter scenario as it had been with nearly twice the volume in the old sprayer. Since I was starting from a brand new bottle of Exel, I was able to determine that my amounts were closer to 3 oz per gallon, while 2 oz per is the max amount recommended, and as Ami said, use less on smaller plants.

The good news: nature has been very kind and continues to bring warm days and cool nights. First extended Spring weather pattern in many years in N. Tx. My plants seem to be pulling through this with plenty of new growth and flowering. I only removed 1 plant (shown in a pic) for which I had a back up and think the rest will recover. I'm sure I cost myself lots of tomatoes, but, it doesn't appear I pulled a grim reaper on them all, whew! The only upside I see is that whatever caused the black leaf margins to begin with is gone, and I haven't had any early blight (usually the first disease around here) or other leaf diseases so far, so the only damage so far is what I caused.

Lessons learned: especially when you have new equipment, be extremely careful with measurements because some of our tools are dangerous when used to excess.

Be mindful of potential interaction of oils and other sprays because together, they can cause harm!

I very much appreciate all the replies and helping me work through a panic situation. :-)

Dewayne mater

hi, D.m.

not nice symptoms there.

please note, leaf tip burn and other symptoms at your photos doesn't necessarily have to be connected: the first photo shows some fito- toxicity ( my guess would be a chemicals/low temperatures/high-fertilizer-dosage combination ), while other photos and your description show a quite rapidly moving disease/diseases.
CMM looks highly possible there, although i wouldn't exclude good old uninvited fungal guests. could you describe the situation on the back side of infected leafs, or show some more accurate photos of it, stems also? and, another question- does this thing start from the oldest leafs and than climbs to the top or symptoms appear low and high at the same time?

anyway,
with the severely affected plants i would try a combination of [U]0.2% fosetyl aluminium[/U] ( 80% substance, in Europe we got the product from Bayercropscience as ''Aliette flash'' ) + [U]0.04% copper hydroxide [/U], and then after a week again.
it's a risky approach, but those plants from the photos do not call for peaceful solutions, to be honest they look like you need to pull it out, disinfect the soil and not grow any tomatoes at the same spot for a few years.

with the plants which are still not affected you can go with [U]fosetyl aluminium + mankozeb[/U] at normal dosages, and then alternate it with [U]difenoconazole [/U] after 5-7 days.

off course, if you still have plants which aren't blossoming yet, a combination of copper + mankozeb alternated with difenoconazole will give you ultimate peace.

anyhow, do not cut the affected leafs at hot- humid and rainy or windy weather, and be sure to disinfect the tools.

Ivan

New pictures May 14, 2013
 

Ivan - thanks for that most depressing reply! I want to add a some pictures from this morning to see if this adds any information or confirms your thoughts please.

As you can see in the first picture, I've got some new leaves that are brown and dying. To be accurate, most of my plants have lots of new growth that looks healthy. Some of it has brown tips on some of the leaves. I've show this picture because it is the worst of the worst.

Next, I've attached a picture which shows blooms that are affected and browning and shown less clearly are some leaves with brown tips.

Finally, I've now seen a few leaves in my dirt garden with leaf edges/margins showing some black and withering leaf tips. This is what I first saw in my container garden. What is this?

I contacted the mfg of Exel and asked for any info on burns from too much of the product. They quickly responded but, they had no pictures of leaf burn from over application. Here is what they said: "The product is systemic and anywhere from day 14-21 post application the product turns into nutritional phosphorous which the plant then consumes as nutrients. Because Tomatoes are very sensitive to their environment it may be possible that you burned the plant. We recommend that you contact your local extension service in your county they will be able to help you distinguish a burn as well as help you identify if the plant has a fungus."

Thanks for all your assistance so far!

Dewayne mater

hi, DM,

tough questions with your gardens, but not depressing at all:)

let me try from the beginning, and with some kind of order:

1.
nobody can tell you what it is by photos only, at least 5 things could cause this, so we can talk only probabilities here. the absolutely smartest move you could make is to take a piece of an infected plant to the lab and get a positive answer.

2.
i recommended a fosetyl al./copper mix with a purpose, but it was based on the presumption that you only had a couple of plants severely affected while the large majority was doing just fine?
the purpose of such mix was to determine what it is: this combination covers Late Blight, and it is also proved to help with bacteria, even with Bacterial Canker ( [I]Clavibacter michiganensis ssp. michiganensis[/I] ) which is known for high immunity to copper. the combination is also highly fito- toxic, so it would ''torch'' the bad leafs but leave the new ones protected.
so, eventually, applying such a combination could narrow your field of choices and provide you with answers:
- if it totally stops the disease from new leafs, it's Late Blight
- if it only slows it down or stops it temporarily, bacteria would come as the choice n1
- if it doesn't help at all, it would mean that i guessed what it was at first :D, and the following alternation with difenoconazole would save the day for you;)

3.
but now i am under impression that it's already a significant outbreak at your place, so if i am right what it is, it's not that smart to waste time to take the ''experimental mix'' approach :).

4.
so i'll tell you my guesses about it:

- the absolutely largest probability is [I]Leveillula Taurica[/I] ( rather than [I]Oidium Lycopersicum[/I] judging by the yellowish color of the front spots, although i cannot tell at what exact disease stage you took the photos, so i could be wrong about this ) or, in common language, Powdery Mildew, which combined with weather conditions and some clear signs of fertilizers overdose made the atomic excursion to your garden.
i am quite convinced that's what you got there.
- [I]Phytophthora infestans[/I], aka Late Blight, would come as choice n2, but this would mean that you missed a very significant amount of olive- green spots on the leafs of your plants. also, clear necrosis at leaf margins ( i presume photos taken in early signs phase ) strongly suggest PM rather than LB
- CMM would come only as n3 in my list, especially judging by the ultra speed of disease development, and the fact that other from foliage problems your plants don't look weak at all and stems appear unusually healthy for bacterial diseases. actually, if your place was indoor type i would even name [I]Fulvia Fulva[/I] rather than CMM.


so here is what i would recommend:

a) spray [U]0.5% difenoconazole ( 25% clear substance ) + 0.25% mankozeb ( 80% clear substance )[/U] asap, all plants. if i am right this will help, but even if i am not this covers most of the curable diseases spectrum.
b) depending on weather, after 7-10 days spray [U]0.015% trifloxystrobin ( 50% clear substance ) + 0.25% propineb ( 70% clear substance )[/U]
c) if you can't find those, use what ever systemic for PM you can find + mankozeb:D
d) stop fertilizing asap, any kind of nitro especially.
e) don't worry, it's going to be ok- nothing really scary there:surprised:


and, finally, a list of general suggestions to you:

- listen to your plants, that's where you'll find the answer sooner than here.

- key factors to determine what it is are not on the photos ( final leaf stage appears the same with at least a dozen different diseases ), but in weather conditions of the outbreak moment ( cold rules out plenty of bacterial and viral stuff, hard wind lowers the possibility of insect- born diseases such as viruses and bacteria, etc. ), exact place where the disease appears ( low means fungal in principle, everywhere means viral or bacterial or LB or PM ), but above all the speed at which the disease progresses ( with PM you'll see unbelievable speed- we are talking minutes and hours not days here, with LB also but still quite slower, viruses and bacteria take a bit more time, etc. ), and finally the overall appearance of the plant ( viruses make them ''shrub- like'', new leafs harshly wrinkled, lower, weaker, bacteria also makes a look of an unhealthy plant, usually stems are damaged too )

- pay attention to fertilizing, you should actually feed the soil not the plants

- pay special attention to seed/seedlings you use, if it really happens to be bacteria you will get to know a long long headache, viruses are like that too

and, finally, i am off.

br,

ivan

Ivan - thank you for that well thought out, detailed and expert response! I surely hope you are right about the PM and/or late blight! Those I can control. I may well have over fertilized as I used a different fertilizer in the soiless mix of my self water containers (earthtainer) that may be activating more quickly than a more slow release type that I've used in the past. I will definitely not add any ferts for a while and even then, I will use as low a nitrogen product as I can find.

It may be the late cold snap plus over fertilization that added the symptoms I've never encountered before. If so, we are done with cold and heat is coming all too quickly. I'm encouraged by the new growth and flowering. I will keep being vigilant. I try to watch my plants, but sometimes don't hear what they are trying to tell me and that's usually when I turn to Tville! ;-) I really appreciate it!

Dewayne mater.