Hornworm Moth
 

I never saw one of these before today. I think it is time to break out the BT. Anyone know how long it takes the eggs to hatch?

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Depends on the temperature, but usually about 5 days. I don't think that is a sphinx moth,(hornworms are their larva), I think it is a tomato fruitworm moth, but the end result is the same, they both eat leaves and fruit, and BT is great stuff!

Marsha

Ahhh the foe of any gardener. Killed one in my garden last night.

Do you guys break out the BT when you see stuff or do you use it as part of a weekly alternating spray lineup like Serenade & milk spray?

I don't spray until I see leaves with holes, and only if my search for the offender is unsuccessful. I have found 4 hornworms already this year. I am going to spray this weekend because I know the moth was out there and BT is harmless to anything but the worms.

Usually i use spinosad as part of my scheduled spraying. But this year i am trying praying mantids. If i dont see close to total control i will break out the spinosad after all. The bummer is it will most likely kill the praying mantids.

The sphinx moth is very interesting because it looks a lot like a hummingbird in flight. The hornworm is not so interesting when it begins to chow down. Luckily for here the worms are few enough and large enough that hand harvesting takes care of the problem.

mix a tablespoon of molasses in a gallon of water, spray wherever you don't want caterpillars and they won't touch it. you can add a tsp of dish soap to make it stick better and you have to apply it every four or five days or after a rain but they will not eat anything with molasses on it. last season i was picking 15-25 caterpillars off the first couple days and then after i started the molasses regimen i'd be lucky to find 3 or 4 and those weren't eating just crawling along stems. the molasses also doesn't affect the butterfly population like BT can if they are coinciding with the moth caterpillars. i do love me some BT though, it's great for the crawlies and mosquitoes/gnats i've got a bottle of concentrate on the way for soil drenching for the cucumber beetles. give it a shot, i didn't believe it would be so effective before i tried it

[QUOTE=RootLoops;415737]mix a tablespoon of molasses in a gallon of water, spray wherever you don't want caterpillars and they won't touch it. you can add a tsp of dish soap to make it stick better and you have to apply it every four or five days or after a rain but they will not eat anything with molasses on it. last season i was picking 15-25 caterpillars off the first couple days and then after i started the molasses regimen i'd be lucky to find 3 or 4 and those weren't eating just crawling along stems. the molasses also doesn't affect the butterfly population like BT can if they are coinciding with the moth caterpillars......[/QUOTE]

Sounds like a plan I can get behind, Thanks.

First year tomato gardner! What is full name of BT and where can I buy it?
I found 2 hornworms tonight and I want to nip this in the bud ASAP!

[QUOTE=sparkie22;417219]First year tomato gardner! What is full name of BT and where can I buy it?
I found 2 hornworms tonight and I want to nip this in the bud ASAP![/QUOTE]
BT=[I] Bacillus thuringiensis[/I], a bacteria poisonous to caterpillars. I currently use Safer brand as that was all my local nursery had on hand. You should be able to find bT at most any good nursery.

[url]http://www.saferbrand.com/store/garden-care/5163#desc[/url]

We had hornworms two years ago. They still haunt my dreams, hahaha. I actually was such a newbie I thought they were just GIGANTIC, crazy, [I]benign[/I] caterpillars, here for a friendly visit, and "wow, let's get the camera!”

Then I noticed the missing leaves (why else did I think caterpillars would be on my plants?! I am an idiot, yes,) did a quick Google and....ugh. I'm just glad my husband was brave enough to dispose of them. Shudder.

That is my unhelpful contribution to this thread. :lol:

Thanks Mojave!

[QUOTE=AprilMayJune;417255]We had hornworms two years ago. They still haunt my dreams, hahaha. I actually was such a newbie I thought they were just GIGANTIC, crazy, [I]benign[/I] caterpillars, here for a friendly visit, and "wow, let's get the camera!”

Then I noticed the missing leaves (why else did I think caterpillars would be on my plants?! I am an idiot, yes,) did a quick Google and....ugh. I'm just glad my husband was brave enough to dispose of them. Shudder.

That is my unhelpful contribution to this thread. :lol:[/QUOTE]
I don't think you are an idiot at all. I had no idea what that cool looking extremely large green caterpillar was the first time I saw it either. That's what learning is all about. I liked the cute story, that is a nice contribution to the thread.;)

Marsha

In my 30+ years of gardening, I can count the number of Tomato Horn Worms I've seen on 1 hand. I don't know why, but we usually don't get them. And I've never seen the moth.

But last year we DID see several (maybe a dozen) of the Tobacco horn worm. Similar but not much of a horn and more brown than green. And I did see several of the Hummingbird moths in the fields. We squished them as we saw them. Weird as there are plenty of tomatoes in my area besides mine but Tobacco is about 100 miles away if grown at all around here.

We do use BT now and then for our cabbage and broccoli crops so maybe that keeps them down.

Carol

[QUOTE=Wi-sunflower;417478]In my 30+ years of gardening, I can count the number of Tomato Horn Worms I've seen on 1 hand. I don't know why, but we usually don't get them. And I've never seen the moth.

But last year we DID see several (maybe a dozen) of the Tobacco horn worm. Similar but not much of a horn and more brown than green. And I did see several of the Hummingbird moths in the fields. We squished them as we saw them. Weird as there are plenty of tomatoes in my area besides mine but Tobacco is about 100 miles away if grown at all around here.

We do use BT now and then for our cabbage and broccoli crops so maybe that keeps them down.

Carol[/QUOTE]

What you saw was a caterpillar starting to pupate.

From what I have read and from my observations here in the south we have tobacco horn worms.
I dont think I have ever seen a tomato horn worm.:?!?:


Here is a link that shows the difference between both worms.
Worth
[URL]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEMQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fentnemdept.ufl.edu%2Fcreatures%2Ffield%2Fhornworm.htm&ei=cFKcU9HWKaXn8AHMwIDgCw&usg=AFQjCNG3KgUH35cOiGTm6DKAtxhJFV2TXQ[/URL]

Do the caterpillars add more coloring as they age? I found this one quickly marching across my lawn last year, none were seen in the garden or elsewhere. It does have a spike horn, so at least must be related. It was all lime green, some pale yellow barely seen striping along the segments, but none of the dots or dramatic polka dots that are shown in the ID pictures. The pics I took showing more underside were kind of blurry, but there were no dots.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/MizTortuga/GardenNonTomato/LimeGreenCaterpillar_zpsab3a16b1.jpg[/IMG]

So which kind was this? Have never seen one up here before.

[QUOTE=ddsack;417513]Do the caterpillars add more coloring as they age? I found this one quickly marching across my lawn last year, none were seen in the garden or elsewhere. It does have a spike horn, so at least must be related. It was all lime green, some pale yellow barely seen striping along the segments, but none of the dots or dramatic polka dots that are shown in the ID pictures. The pics I took showing more underside were kind of blurry, but there were no dots.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v163/MizTortuga/GardenNonTomato/LimeGreenCaterpillar_zpsab3a16b1.jpg[/IMG]

So which kind was this? Have never seen one up here before.[/QUOTE]

Dee from doing research on line I have found many horn worms that look similar but aren't either tobacco or tomato horn worms.

Some eat apple trees and other have specific plants they eat.
The mottled blue horn is throwing me off.

Got it!
It is a Fawn Sphinx or Laural Spinx = Spinx Kalmiae moth caterpillar?
Worth
[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CC8QFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbugguide.net%2Fnode%2Fview%2F3733&ei=z3CcU6H5FYXK8wHI3YCgBw&usg=AFQjCNGeaTnS2_Z1UxHQZCqnudOtQK16aQ[/url]

I thought that looked familiar. In England we used to call it the Privet Hawk Moth. They eat Privet! How bad can that be?

Linda

[QUOTE=Labradors2;417528]I thought that looked familiar. In England we used to call it the Privet Hawk Moth. They eat Privet! How bad can that be?

Linda[/QUOTE]

Nope yet another horn worm.:lol:
Spinx Ligustri.

Worth

[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CEMQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.learnaboutbutterflies.com%2FCaterpillar%2520-%2520Sphinx%2520ligustri.htm&ei=X3acU_bML8nI8gGCoYGICQ&usg=AFQjCNHWa-xzT-mjaDhEbx7kXd-xixC5Tw[/url]

[QUOTE=Worth1;417534]Nope yet another horn worm.:lol:
Spinx Ligustri.

Worth

[URL]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CEMQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.learnaboutbutterflies.com%2FCaterpillar%2520-%2520Sphinx%2520ligustri.htm&ei=X3acU_bML8nI8gGCoYGICQ&usg=AFQjCNHWa-xzT-mjaDhEbx7kXd-xixC5Tw[/URL][/QUOTE]


Oh well. I was close, but get no cigar. Kissing cousins perhaps? :lol:

Thanks for looking it up!

Linda

[QUOTE=Labradors2;417548]Oh well. I was close, but get no cigar. Kissing cousins perhaps? :lol:

Thanks for looking it up!

Linda[/QUOTE]

Linda not trying to show anyone up.:)

I was just showing that not all horn worms eat tobacco and tomatoes.

These moths are smart they will lay there eggs on what the babies eat.

I have never seen a particular caterpillar before until I planted some passion fruit.
No sooner than I did than a pile of orange and black caterpillars showed up and started eating the vines to the ground.:no:

Worth
Introducing Agraulis vanillae.:lol:

[URL="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.butterfliesandmoths.org%2Fspecies%2FAgraulis-vanillae&ei=VJOcU_WjK4S2yATYhYCYCA&usg=AFQjCNFRINl6MeiKi9ZoeenELELifEUOdA"]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.butterfliesandmoths.org%2Fspecies%2FAgraulis-vanillae&ei=VJOcU_WjK4S2yATYhYCYCA&usg=AFQjCNFRINl6MeiKi9ZoeenELELifEUOdA[/URL]

Thanks for the ID, Worth! Among other things it says they eat Ash and Lilac -- we have those! At least it won't bother veggie garden things ... glad I let it go on it's way. I was going to do it in, thinking it might unleash a future bunch of tomato pests, but it was so odd and beautiful in it's slightly repulsive way, that I couldn't kill it not knowing for sure what it was.

I'll give your that what I saw was probably ready to pupate, it was late in the season. But the moth I saw was quite different than in your link. I thought I took a pic, but I can't find it. The closest I could find on Google is this - [url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/13237694@N00/6207363744/[/url]

But that's not it either. The stripes were more totally straight across and more striped. Almost like a horizontal striped tee shirt. more brown and yellow.

So all in the family but something a bit different.

Carol

[QUOTE=Worth1;417500]What you saw was a caterpillar starting to pupate.

From what I have read and from my observations here in the south we have tobacco horn worms.
I dont think I have ever seen a tomato horn worm.:?!?:


Here is a link that shows the difference between both worms.
Worth
[URL]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEMQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fentnemdept.ufl.edu%2Fcreatures%2Ffield%2Fhornworm.htm&ei=cFKcU9HWKaXn8AHMwIDgCw&usg=AFQjCNG3KgUH35cOiGTm6DKAtxhJFV2TXQ[/URL][/QUOTE]

Well I have seen plenty of both. I can't believe there can be so many here and not over in Texas. I usually see more of the Tomato Horn Worm than the Tobacco Horn Worm. Luckily so far this year I haven't had too many but a friend of mine had nine plants almost denuded and a lot of his fruit eaten when he went out of town for a week. He was not a happy camper when they got back from the beach.

Bill

[QUOTE=b54red;417812]Well I have seen plenty of both. I can't believe there can be so many here and not over in Texas. I usually see more of the Tomato Horn Worm than the Tobacco Horn Worm. Luckily so far this year I haven't had too many but a friend of mine had nine plants almost denuded and a lot of his fruit eaten when he went out of town for a week. He was not a happy camper when they got back from the beach.

Bill[/QUOTE]

I have too many of the tobacco horn worms.
I have seen whole plants ate up over night.:evil:

Worth

Rootloops, What product gives directions for the BT as a drench. I would use that if I had the instructions on a bottle somewhere. Thanks.( Otherwise I am restricted to using "as labeled" products with my spray license. )