Things that puzzle me: Stasis & indiginous organisms

mensplace · December 26, 2009

I have learned a lot here and had plenty of time to cogitate on much that I have been tols. Carol, I believe, offered an amazing simple yet profound statement re virus and disease...that being that no matter what you do in the soil, many conditions come from the environment around the plants, such as TMV.

I believe that life in the soil and the ecosystem has evolved for a long time. There are naturally existing good and bad elements, but the existing life and disease forms are well established. Having seen what introducing outside forces like kudzu or pythons from a foreign source can totally upset the stasis. This can be good or bad. Surely the same thing must be true in the plant, virus, and microorganism kingdom. Whether home made EM, compost teas, sewage sludge and other amendments do we know what we are adding and what its impacts will be to that stasis. Compound this with dozens of fertilizers, minerals, and other amendments, do we really know if the new balance is beneficial. Many of the bagged composts here have sewage sludge, replete with all manner of heavy metals. Homemade EM, microrganism blends, and compost teas may well have beneficial microorganisms, but they may also have many pathogens, toxins, and carcinogens..just like that poorly made anaerobic compost that is a perfect breeding place for all of these. I have made beer for many years, enough to know that done improperly it can also go off, just as can improperly canned vegetables. How does that which we are adding actually work in terms of the existing, indiginous life forms. I'm beginning to think a properly made, humus rich compost sufficient.

I have also seen many an acre of plastic warming blankets stretched over the fields to kill virus and blight by effectively cooking the soil. Woudn't this also kill most other life forms?

Lately, I have been reminded that even excessive tilling can totally destroy the symbiotic conditions, soil structure, and earthworms.

Having already added every conceivable microorganism blend, EM, Lacto, yeast, mineral, rock dusts, natural nutrient, fish meal, kelp, chitin, gypsum, calcium carbonate, lime to my soil..also including molasses, char, dog food with bone meal, rabbit food with alfalfa, and chicken food with feathers and corn, I have reached a point where the mind calls for a halt to this insanity and a return to a more natural approach of creating well made windrows of frequently turned compost and using that. For this year I hope the tomatoes can somehow benefit from that which I have done, but in the future I'm going to be seeking a far more natural and simpler approach.

I believe that up to a point the soils can again reach a point of stasis, but am more and more coming to believe that all of this busy work may well be creating a complex miasma of developments that are anything but natural. Too, my new course will be a LOT cheaper and less time consuming. At least with my compost, I KNOW that what I am adding is both natural, health giving and properly made.

habitat_gardener · December 26, 2009

Yes, I think compost is a good starting point, and also a good place to end up after you've tried everything else.

But I disagree about "stasis." I see soil as a dynamic system, with nutrients shuttling from my lovely clay soil into mycorrhizal channels and thence to plant roots, in the amounts "ordered" by the plants via their exudates. Meanwhile, the microfauna fed by the compost are producing the glomalin that creates soil structure as well as all kinds of compounds that keep the whole more-complex-than-a-24/7-rube-goldberg invention humming along.

I've used mostly homemade compost, plus the occasional comfrey tea and a few scattered alfalfa pellets.

December 26, 2009	#1
mensplace Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: USA Posts: 1,013	Things that puzzle me: Stasis & indiginous organisms I have learned a lot here and had plenty of time to cogitate on much that I have been tols. Carol, I believe, offered an amazing simple yet profound statement re virus and disease...that being that no matter what you do in the soil, many conditions come from the environment around the plants, such as TMV. I believe that life in the soil and the ecosystem has evolved for a long time. There are naturally existing good and bad elements, but the existing life and disease forms are well established. Having seen what introducing outside forces like kudzu or pythons from a foreign source can totally upset the stasis. This can be good or bad. Surely the same thing must be true in the plant, virus, and microorganism kingdom. Whether home made EM, compost teas, sewage sludge and other amendments do we know what we are adding and what its impacts will be to that stasis. Compound this with dozens of fertilizers, minerals, and other amendments, do we really know if the new balance is beneficial. Many of the bagged composts here have sewage sludge, replete with all manner of heavy metals. Homemade EM, microrganism blends, and compost teas may well have beneficial microorganisms, but they may also have many pathogens, toxins, and carcinogens..just like that poorly made anaerobic compost that is a perfect breeding place for all of these. I have made beer for many years, enough to know that done improperly it can also go off, just as can improperly canned vegetables. How does that which we are adding actually work in terms of the existing, indiginous life forms. I'm beginning to think a properly made, humus rich compost sufficient. I have also seen many an acre of plastic warming blankets stretched over the fields to kill virus and blight by effectively cooking the soil. Woudn't this also kill most other life forms? Lately, I have been reminded that even excessive tilling can totally destroy the symbiotic conditions, soil structure, and earthworms. Having already added every conceivable microorganism blend, EM, Lacto, yeast, mineral, rock dusts, natural nutrient, fish meal, kelp, chitin, gypsum, calcium carbonate, lime to my soil..also including molasses, char, dog food with bone meal, rabbit food with alfalfa, and chicken food with feathers and corn, I have reached a point where the mind calls for a halt to this insanity and a return to a more natural approach of creating well made windrows of frequently turned compost and using that. For this year I hope the tomatoes can somehow benefit from that which I have done, but in the future I'm going to be seeking a far more natural and simpler approach. I believe that up to a point the soils can again reach a point of stasis, but am more and more coming to believe that all of this busy work may well be creating a complex miasma of developments that are anything but natural. Too, my new course will be a LOT cheaper and less time consuming. At least with my compost, I KNOW that what I am adding is both natural, health giving and properly made.

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December 26, 2009	#2
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	Yes, I think compost is a good starting point, and also a good place to end up after you've tried everything else. But I disagree about "stasis." I see soil as a dynamic system, with nutrients shuttling from my lovely clay soil into mycorrhizal channels and thence to plant roots, in the amounts "ordered" by the plants via their exudates. Meanwhile, the microfauna fed by the compost are producing the glomalin that creates soil structure as well as all kinds of compounds that keep the whole more-complex-than-a-24/7-rube-goldberg invention humming along. I've used mostly homemade compost, plus the occasional comfrey tea and a few scattered alfalfa pellets.