Fermentation - what went wrong?

tam91 · February 8, 2011

I have saved two batches of seed from the Zima tomatoes I got at the store.

The first batch, it took a little while (inside the house, central heat) but I got a nice fungus mat. I dried them, and then germination tested them - 10 out of 10 germinated. So far so good (all of the seeds I sent out are from this batch).

The second batch that I tried, they sat for a long time. Never got a fungus mat or any sign of fungus at all. I gave up, rinsed them off, and dried them. Tried to germination test them - none germinated (it's been quite a while, I'm pretty sure they're not going to).

So... what may have gone wrong? What can I do differently?

If I don't see a fungus mat or anything, how long should I leave the seeds before rinsing and drying them?

amideutch · February 8, 2011

Normally 5-7 days is max for fermenting seeds irregardless whether you get a fungus mat or not. Just because you don't get a fungus mat doesn't mean the seeds are not viable. Ami

tam91 · February 8, 2011

OK, maybe I left them too long then.

This last batch does not appear to be viable, none germinated. But I have more tomatoes, so I'll just try again.

So 5-7 days, then rinse and dry, mat or not.

b54red · February 9, 2011

If the seeds soak too long they begin to germinate. I did this on a couple of batches too and most of the seed were useless.

King Carrot · February 9, 2011

At room temperature around 68°, I ferment for 3-4 days max, It just doesn't feel right to me leaving them in the liquid any longer. I wait until there is a layer of fungus then rinse and dry on a paper plate and so far all the saved seeds have looked OK and have germinated near on 100% - I admit I've only been doing this 2 seasons so I'm still a newbie - just rather have some seeds at the end than have them go over.

ContainerTed · February 9, 2011

This is an issue that I addressed in the procedure I wrote and placed on Tatiana's database (see link below).

The goal is NOT to achieve some level of fungal mass floating on top of the mix. The goal is to remove the GEL from around the seeds.

Check your seed fermentation containers frequently and you'll quickly be able to recognize a seed that has parted with the gel sac. They move differently (more freely) in the liquid.

When I was in Northeast Georgia, 48 to 72 hours was all the time it took in summer. I can't remember going into the 4th day, even in the late spring/early summer. Here in Northeast Tennessee, it looks like three days in half pint jars is the best timing scenario. If the seeds are still hanging on to the gel sacs, a little bit of scouring cleanser agitation and they're ready for the paper plate.

Don't lose site of the goal which is to remove the gel sac. If you're new to saving seeds using the fermentation method, then check out this link which has pictures to illustrate.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...g_Fermentation

Ted

tam91 · February 9, 2011

Thanks Ted - I did read through it once some time ago, but obviously I need to again. I was spoiled by a couple batches working out fine, and wasn't careful enough with that last one. Back to school for me.

February 8, 2011	#1
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Fermentation - what went wrong? I have saved two batches of seed from the Zima tomatoes I got at the store. The first batch, it took a little while (inside the house, central heat) but I got a nice fungus mat. I dried them, and then germination tested them - 10 out of 10 germinated. So far so good (all of the seeds I sent out are from this batch). The second batch that I tried, they sat for a long time. Never got a fungus mat or any sign of fungus at all. I gave up, rinsed them off, and dried them. Tried to germination test them - none germinated (it's been quite a while, I'm pretty sure they're not going to). So... what may have gone wrong? What can I do differently? If I don't see a fungus mat or anything, how long should I leave the seeds before rinsing and drying them?

February 8, 2011	#2
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Normally 5-7 days is max for fermenting seeds irregardless whether you get a fungus mat or not. Just because you don't get a fungus mat doesn't mean the seeds are not viable. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 9, 2011	#6
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	This is an issue that I addressed in the procedure I wrote and placed on Tatiana's database (see link below). The goal is NOT to achieve some level of fungal mass floating on top of the mix. The goal is to remove the GEL from around the seeds. Check your seed fermentation containers frequently and you'll quickly be able to recognize a seed that has parted with the gel sac. They move differently (more freely) in the liquid. When I was in Northeast Georgia, 48 to 72 hours was all the time it took in summer. I can't remember going into the 4th day, even in the late spring/early summer. Here in Northeast Tennessee, it looks like three days in half pint jars is the best timing scenario. If the seeds are still hanging on to the gel sacs, a little bit of scouring cleanser agitation and they're ready for the paper plate. Don't lose site of the goal which is to remove the gel sac. If you're new to saving seeds using the fermentation method, then check out this link which has pictures to illustrate. http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...g_Fermentation Ted __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

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February 9, 2011	#4
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	If the seeds soak too long they begin to germinate. I did this on a couple of batches too and most of the seed were useless.

February 9, 2011	#5
King Carrot Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Co Kerry Ireland Posts: 15	At room temperature around 68°, I ferment for 3-4 days max, It just doesn't feel right to me leaving them in the liquid any longer. I wait until there is a layer of fungus then rinse and dry on a paper plate and so far all the saved seeds have looked OK and have germinated near on 100% - I admit I've only been doing this 2 seasons so I'm still a newbie - just rather have some seeds at the end than have them go over.