My Plan to fill the new raised-raised beds...looking for comments

[z_willus_d]

Hello,

I'm nearing the goal-line on a multi-month project to build a 2+ foot side retaining wall on the right side of my backyard and atop that two 24'x2'x16" (LxWxD) raised beds out of cinder block. You can see how that's coming along in the first set of pics I've posted.

Today, I had a local delivery of the following (also in pics):
- 1 yd3 of Black Forest Humus
- 1/2 yd3 of course "Arena sand"
- 1/4 yd3 washed fill sand
-1/4 yd3 of decomposed granite

(Those components were all mixed together in the right pile).

- 2 yd3 of horse manure.

I don't plan to use the manure in my soil mix, at least not immediately or necessarily even this season, but it was cheaper to buy the $10/yd3 and get free delivery vs. pay for just the 2 yd3 of what I needed.

So, I've got those components to work with, and I managed to get a great deal at Lowes on their 2.2 cu ft Premier-brand Spagnum peat moss (price matching H.D.'s not currently available 3cu foot bags of the same. With my 10% discount, I got each of the 2.2 cu ft bags for less than $7 each. Not bad. I picked up 20 compressed bales.

I also located a local, recently opened hydroponics shop not 2 miles from my house where they were really nice and gave me their employee discount on:
- 10 4 cu ft bags of Perlite ($13.50 a bag)
- 1 50lb bag of dolomite lime ($7.50)
- 1 50lb bag of Alfalfa Pellets ($17)
- 1 50lb bag of Alfalfa Meal ($18)

All and all, I think I've done well in my procurement phase.

I spent half of today moving the stinky horse SH * T to a place in my backyard -- something like 40 wheelbarrow runs. Tomorrow I plan to start filling my raised-raised beds. Here's my mix plan. Note, I'm aiming to use water soluble fertilization this year (continuous), though I'm not yet sure whether to use something organic like the Fox Farm's GrowBig/BloomBig/TigerBloom series or go with a commercial fertilizer, e.g. a 20-10-20 h2o-soluble. Also, I should mention my mix ratios are inspired by the user, "Hermitian," off the recommendations in this thread: http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...=18991&page=3/ . I'll appreciate your thoughts on this mix for my application. I plan to grow mainly heirloom tomatoes with a few hybrids (mostly larger sized, though a few medium and a couple cherries too). The mix I'm planning:
- 2 Parts Black Forest Humus
- 1 Part Arena Sand/Fill Sand/Decomposed Granite
- 2 Parts Spagnum peat moss
- 3 Parts Perlite

I will also add the following to the mix:
- Some of my fresh worm castings, mainly to inoculate some worms into the mix.
- 2 cups of Dolomite Lime per 2'x2' square, which happens to be the space I plan to devote to each tomato plant. Any idea if this is too little or too much? I guess that's an ambiguous question. I'll take answers for the amount of DL as well as the plant area.
- Some undecided amount of Alfalfa pellets/meal per 2'2' square to provide something for the worms to munch. Any idea how much alfalfa I should integrate? I don't want to really feed the plants too much with it so much as add some organic matter for the beneficials.

I will throw in some Mycorrhizae powder with the plant at transplant. In addition, I'll be looking to soil drench with a combo of Actinovate/Myco-grow/Biota-max. I'll do that at initial plant out and maybe a second time after the plants start to bloom. Any better schedule? I'll probably throw down some Epsom salts (maybe a 1/4cup per plant), as well as some of that Sul-Po-Mag that Hermitian was advocating for potash. I'm also considering the root enhancers, such as the very expensive Root Excelurator. Any thoughts on that? And I'm trying to decide what if anything to do with Humic/Fulvic acids. Again, any thoughts about this? How to apply? What products to consider? Etc.

Of course, I'll also have to come up with a game plan to ward off and get ahead of disease/fungus/bacteria/blight and the like. That's another thing for another time though.

Alright, that's my plan. I'd appreciate any input on the mix ratio, components, and regiment I have in mind. This will be my first year growing in a spot that gets more than 5-6 hours of direct sunlight. I'm very excited to start doing it right, end-to-end, front-to-back, root-to-tip.

Thanks all,
Naysen

[dustyrivergarden]

very nice great job. I bet it will get better and better with age.

[z_willus_d]

Thanks "Dusty?" I agree, time can only improve things. I"m going to be very "fresh" going into this season.
-naysen

[VC Scott]

Dolomite Lime has both calcium and magnesium. If you also add sul-po-mag, might you be adding too much magnesium? I would ask Hermitian about that.

Too much of a good thing can be bad.

[dustyrivergarden]

I put in a couple of beds in last year and I think the biggest help was the rock dust I see your putting in a decomposed granite in yours. But I just kept it simple one thing at a time be careful your adding a lot of stuff that can get that bed hotter than a firecracker.

[z_willus_d]

Originally Posted by dustyrivergarden

I put in a couple of beds in last year and I think the biggest help was the rock dust I see your putting in a decomposed granite in yours. But I just kept it simple one thing at a time be careful your adding a lot of stuff that can get that bed hotter than a firecracker.

When you say, "hotter than a firecracker," I'm assuming you really mean heat as in the rocks will hold heat from the sun and cook the roots, as opposed to the other form of heat, too much Nitrogen. For the former, I do plan to lay down about 4" of mulch. I was going to go with medium bark, but I recalled how annoying it is dealing with all that bark at the end of the season, so I'll probably get some kind of micro bark that will decompose over the life of the season so I can just turn it back into the soil in the bed. I prefer that to having to remove the bark, upkeep the soil, replant, and then replace the bark every year.
Thanks,
-naysen

[dustyrivergarden]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

When you say, "hotter than a firecracker," I'm assuming you really mean heat as in the rocks will hold heat from the sun and cook the roots, as opposed to the other form of heat, too much Nitrogen. For the former, I do plan to lay down about 4" of mulch. I was going to go with medium bark, but I recalled how annoying it is dealing with all that bark at the end of the season, so I'll probably get some kind of micro bark that will decompose over the life of the season so I can just turn it back into the soil in the bed. I prefer that to having to remove the bark, upkeep the soil, replant, and then replace the bark every year.
Thanks,
-naysen

when I was talking heat I was talking all the nitrogen alfalfa meal and pellets, wood bark from the mulch the sul-po-mag actually composting while in your new bed getting it hot. Heck I love the decomposed granite I just filled my truck with a load this weekend and plan to spread it on all my beds. Granite is great I think you could mix it 25 percent or more with out any problems.

[z_willus_d]

Scott-

I've never used Sul-Po-Mag, but apparently it's a good source of Potash. It's 0-0-22, I believe. Hermitian proscribed very small dosages of the Sul-Po-Mag as a substitute for Wood Ash. Is it easy to overdose plats with too much Calcium or Magnesium? I haven't heard of that as a common problem, though I have read threads where folks were trying to amp up the amount of Epsom salt, which also has a lot of magnesium, and the result wasn't good. If no one else chimes in here, I'll probably just keep the lime dosage quite low, perhaps around 1 cup per 2'x2'x16" "cube."
Thanks,
-naysen

[dice]

I would cut the lime in half. It is easier to raise pH than reduce it after it
gets too high. You can always add more next year if the pH ends up
below 6.5.

Why the perlite? You have a whole cubic yard of sand there, between
the arena sand, fill sand, and decomposed granite. I would save the
perlite for your containers.

When I added sul-po-mag, I just scattered handfuls the first year and
mixed it in with a spading fork. Same for the alfalfa. The sul-po-mag
is fairly slow release, and yes, it does contain 11% magnesium:
http://www.kmag.com/standard.htm
In successive years, I sprinkled it in a little 1 foot circle around transplants
and cultivated it into the top of the soil with some Tomato-tone or
whatever.

It should be quite fertile with the mix of horse manure and humus. I would
let the plants tell me if it needs more fertilizer.

[z_willus_d]

Dice, thanks for responding. I'm not using the lime for pH adjustment so much as for it's other properties. So, are you suggesting 1 cup per plant (and 2'x2'x16" volume) or 1/2 cup?

Unfortunate, the dump-struck guys accidentally mixed up a good bit of my sand with the horse manure, which I will not be using. I probably have 3/4 a cubic yard of sand. I think sand might be more risky for aeration, which is why I'm using the Perlite.

I was going to add the Sul-Po-Mag with fertilization later (not in the soil mix now). I'm adding a the alfalfa just to feed the soil to feed the worms more than to feed the plants, but it will add N to my mix, so I'll have to account for that when fertilizing later.

Well, I'm back out to the job again. This is hard work man!

Thanks,
-naysen

[fortyonenorth]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

I'm not using the lime for pH adjustment so much as for it's other properties.

If you're going to use K-Mag (Sul-Po-Mag) then calcitic lime (32% Ca) would be a better bet, assuming the addition of lime is intended to provide calcium.

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Dice, thanks for responding. I'm not using the lime for pH adjustment so much as for it's other properties. So, are you suggesting 1 cup per plant (and 2'x2'x16" volume) or 1/2 cup?

Unfortunate, the dump-struck guys accidentally mixed up a ?good bit of my sand with the horse manure, which I will not be using. I probably have 3/4 a cubic yard of sand. I think sand might be more risky for aeration, which is why I'm using the Perlite.

I was going to add the Sul-Po-Mag with fertilization later (not in the soil mix now). I'm adding a the alfalfa just to feed the soil to feed the worms more than to feed the plants, but it will add N to my mix, so I'll have to account for that when fertilizing later.

Well, I'm back out to the job again. This is hard work man!

Thanks,
-naysen

Remember, when you add organic stuff like manure and alfalfa, you get a bugger bang for your buck. Also, remember you're not doing a hydroponics or container, so you dont really need to account for everything. The bacterias and organics will produce some of this for you, given the good stuff, like alfalfa and manure.
Make sure you get a soil test, test for things like boron and selenium. Don't overdue things that can build up and not be taken away, like calcium, phosphorous, or anything that raises pH too much. It's very hard to lower your pH.

[z_willus_d]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

Remember, when you add organic stuff like manure and alfalfa, you get a bugger bang for your buck. Also, remember you're not doing a hydroponics or container, so you dont really need to account for everything. The bacterias and organics will produce some of this for you, given the good stuff, like alfalfa and manure.
Make sure you get a soil test, test for things like boron and selenium. Don't overdue things that can build up and not be taken away, like calcium, phosphorous, or anything that raises pH too much. It's very hard to lower your pH.

Tracy-

I'm trying something different this year. In the past, I've relied on large amounts of manure, some compost, and small amounts of organic additives (various meals, etc.), and I've found that I probably was over-fertilizing causing too much green growth, blossom drop, and other undesirable conditions. One of the problems I have had is not knowing exactly how much of the above amendments to add for a given staring media. This year, I want to use water soluble fertilizers so I can get quasi "scientific" in my application amounts (I might try half organic pricy stuff and half the cheaper that you can purchase in bulk). If I find that my results (quality, yield, disease tolerance, etc.) aren't what I'm striving for, I'll look to either a hybrid approach or going back to full organic supplement approach -- the feed the soil mantras.

One of the problems I'm going to have in evaluating my results is the shear number of variables that have changed from my old garden: different soil, new micro-climate, more sun, different plant varieties, different season, and on. So, this really is sample n=1 for me, so I want it to be as measurable as possible before I start verging into the "art" of tomato gardening.
--naysen

[z_willus_d]

Fortyonenoth. I've already purchased a 50lb bag of the 'ol dolomite lime. Is there a potential for an unwanted reaction using K-mag with dolomite lime? Or were you expecting I might overload one mineral/element or another? Can you explain.
Thanks! Naysen

[fortyonenorth]

Originally Posted by z_willus_d

Is there a potential for an unwanted reaction using K-mag with dolomite lime? Or were you expecting I might overload one mineral/element or another?

Naysen,

No, I wouldn't expect an unwanted reaction but, combined with the K-Mag, the dolomite could add "too much" magnesium. Better to go lightly at first and then fortify later, if necessary. Too much Mg will tie-up calcium which is an undesirable condition. And, once you have "too much" magnesium it's challenging to reduce it.

Let me back up by saying that I'm a firm believer in using a base saturation soil test as a guide to amending any soil. After some years of tweaking, I have arrived at a "balanced" soil that grows good tomatoes (and other veggies as well). I've built a number of raised beds in the past. Our native soil here is sand, so my amended soil, much like yours, contains a large proportion of amendments, e.g. pine bark fines, spaghnum peat, cow manure, etc. When I've had this "improved soil" tested, I've found that, in most cases, I have sufficient calcium and magnesium and insufficient, sulfur, phosphorus and potassium. Although, your results would surely be unique. I mention my situation simply to illustrate that it's hard to know precisely what to add unless you know what you have in place.

I would suggest building your beds and then getting a soil test. Follow its advice and add fertilizers accordingly. This will this provide a level of confidence that you are managing fertility based on information, rather than guess work. More importantly, from my perspective, it helps you better understand what's going on "under the hood" and grow exponentially as a gardener.

The other piece of advice I would offer is this: start simple. The high-profile (and high-priced) luxury fertilizers are generally intended for high-value crops. After all, how many folks do you know who are growing hydroponic lettuce in their basement? Your tomatoes will do just fine without the additional fuss. Once you've developed a regimen that suits your objectives, you can fine-tune.

41N