potting soils,manures,vermic,plant tone,gypsum,epsom salt, ohh my

Ivy123 · May 31, 2012

When i decided to do my container garden ( most are 10 gal or more) Mostly growing tomatoes, peppers,cucumbers,squash.zuccini and canaloupe.

I would research and buy.. research and by more, research and see a comflicting suggestion and by more.

First group of plantings, mixed in a wheel barrow,> I used a combo of half organic potting soil+ 1/2 MG moisture control, bout 15-20% composted manuer+ a few handfulls of chicken manuer+ ground up egg shells

Second time, I used all of the above + added about 3 handfuls of garden tone, and some vermiculite. Also added about a table spoon of epsoms salt and gypsum at the base of plant holes...Are there any one combination of this stuff that would work best?..Or do you see any blinding no no's?

Then we move on to fertilizers/bug control..... Heres my list> bonnie bell plant food, Neptunes harvest fish and seaweed emulsion, gypsome,epsom and garden tone oh and MG tomatoe fert ( Id rather not use)
I used an application of garden tone yesterday...I need to figure out the best stuff to use and the best schedual... I cant use them all..Ill either get world records veggies or burnt plants lol

bug control> I have Insecticidal Soap by worry free..I have Neem oil extract.And Captain Jacks- no bug ( tried to find azamax with no luck..
Im starting to see lil holes/bites on the younger leaves of my pepper plants, im guessing flea beetle- not one bug insight.

I know this is an awful lot of info..but I tend to want to use all of it or change my mind daily lol...If anyone could offer any advice from experience.I'd be so ever grateful..Thanks

Peace,Love and Tomatoes

Sun City Linda · May 31, 2012

Growing in containers is a lot different than growing in garden soil. You have to be very careful adding compost, manures and the like as they don't allow for good aeration to the roots. They become compacted.

Its also a good idea to understand why you use, or add a certain product. Most will tell you eggshells, ground up or otherwise will not break down for years, if then. You seem to be selecting solid, organic ferts which work a great deal better in the ground than in any container. LIquid ferts are the most readily and immediately available to your plants.

We have many members growing good tomatoes in containers. Maybe you should visit the container forums? Most gardening sites, including this one have them.

Ivy123 · May 31, 2012

thanks for the reply suncity (smile)... I had since learned about the compaction aspects of manuer and no perlite/vermiculite= poor drainage... Thats why I added them to my second set of plantings and decreased the manuer (crossing fingers).

I was really hoping the fish emulsion/seaweed liquid would make a good weekly fert with maybe an alternating wk of epsom or gypsum(weak) solution ?

dice · June 2, 2012

The gypsum takes quite a while to break down, similar to lime.
It is not the sort of thing that you add weekly. I would mix about
2 cups in a 10-gallon container in the spring. Half of the calcium
in it will probably still be there the following year, even though
you cannot see it anymore.

The epsom salts break down as soon as they get wet. They
dissolve in water, and the magnesium and sulfur in them is
immediately available to plants. I would broadcast a couple
of tablespoons on top of the soil in the same 10 gallon
container and let watering and rain wash it in. If you mix
it with the container mix, a lot of it will dissolve and wash out
the bottom before the roots have a chance to fill the container.
I would not add more unless I saw leaves with definite
magnesium deficiency symptoms. Magnesium deficient leaves
look like this:
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne..._Magnesium.jpg

Assuming Garden-tone, I do containers like this: I mix in as much
gypsum as I am going to use for the whole season at the beginning.
I dig a hole, drop a handful of the Garden-tone in it, and mix it into
the container mix in the bottom of the hole with a gardening fork
(or any similar tool, like a trowel, etc). I fill in around the seedling,
then I take another handful of Garden-tone and spread it in about
a one-foot circle around the plant. I mix this into the top inch or two
of container mix. Then I scatter a tablespoon or two of epsom salt
on top of the container mix, and I water in the seedling with a
half-gallon to a gallon of the fish-seaweed mix, diluted according
to instructions on the bottle (like a tablespoon per gallon, two
tablespoons per gallon, whatever it says to use). I do not worry
about exact amounts on this, I simply want the container mix
to be moist to the bottom afterward.

I scatter another handful of Garden-tone on top of the container
mix when the plants start to set fruit. I have used Garden-tone
this way, Plant-tone, Tomato-tone, generic 5-10-10, a mix of
different products, etc. In between transplanting into
the containers and adding the handful of fertilizer when
fruitset starts, I just watch the plants. If they look a little yellow,
especially the lower leaves, I will give them another gallon
of the fish emulsion/seaweed mix for a boost. It takes a week
or two to show results, so do not panic if you see no change
a few days later.

I am unfamiliar with the other fertilizers you mentioned, but mainly
just watch the plants. If the lower leaves start to yellow, they need
more nitrogen (fish emulsion is an easy way to add it if you have
that). If the growing tips start to yellow, they need more iron (I use
a liquid chelated iron for plants for this, sprayed on).

Good luck.

Ivy123 · June 4, 2012

( was alread told its far too early for squash bore worm,.
Thats alot of good info Dice...Im filing it away..Thank you so much (smile)..I chked all my plants with a fine toothed comb today ( not that vibrated one though, maybe later--grin}And found eggs under two lower leaves but nothing else (destroyed them. Found about 4 more a few days later, they met the same fate..

I quickly tossed the squash into quarantine....He was wilting a little but looks nice and perky today....Im going to water him in the am and then use one of these> neem/soap, Seven, Captain Jacks.Insecticidal soap or KIll him with kindness and use Neptumes harvest/ fish and seaweed fertilizer....if none of this works I'll bring out my scaple..

I gotta have something to eat with all those maters lol good luck everyone

May 31, 2012	#1
Ivy123 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Indianapolis zone 5 Posts: 37	potting soils,manures,vermic,plant tone,gypsum,epsom salt, ohh my When i decided to do my container garden ( most are 10 gal or more) Mostly growing tomatoes, peppers,cucumbers,squash.zuccini and canaloupe. I would research and buy.. research and by more, research and see a comflicting suggestion and by more. First group of plantings, mixed in a wheel barrow,> I used a combo of half organic potting soil+ 1/2 MG moisture control, bout 15-20% composted manuer+ a few handfulls of chicken manuer+ ground up egg shells Second time, I used all of the above + added about 3 handfuls of garden tone, and some vermiculite. Also added about a table spoon of epsoms salt and gypsum at the base of plant holes...Are there any one combination of this stuff that would work best?..Or do you see any blinding no no's? Then we move on to fertilizers/bug control..... Heres my list> bonnie bell plant food, Neptunes harvest fish and seaweed emulsion, gypsome,epsom and garden tone oh and MG tomatoe fert ( Id rather not use) I used an application of garden tone yesterday...I need to figure out the best stuff to use and the best schedual... I cant use them all..Ill either get world records veggies or burnt plants lol bug control> I have Insecticidal Soap by worry free..I have Neem oil extract.And Captain Jacks- no bug ( tried to find azamax with no luck.. Im starting to see lil holes/bites on the younger leaves of my pepper plants, im guessing flea beetle- not one bug insight. I know this is an awful lot of info..but I tend to want to use all of it or change my mind daily lol...If anyone could offer any advice from experience.I'd be so ever grateful..Thanks Peace,Love and Tomatoes

June 2, 2012	#4
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	The gypsum takes quite a while to break down, similar to lime. It is not the sort of thing that you add weekly. I would mix about 2 cups in a 10-gallon container in the spring. Half of the calcium in it will probably still be there the following year, even though you cannot see it anymore. The epsom salts break down as soon as they get wet. They dissolve in water, and the magnesium and sulfur in them is immediately available to plants. I would broadcast a couple of tablespoons on top of the soil in the same 10 gallon container and let watering and rain wash it in. If you mix it with the container mix, a lot of it will dissolve and wash out the bottom before the roots have a chance to fill the container. I would not add more unless I saw leaves with definite magnesium deficiency symptoms. Magnesium deficient leaves look like this: http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne..._Magnesium.jpg Assuming Garden-tone, I do containers like this: I mix in as much gypsum as I am going to use for the whole season at the beginning. I dig a hole, drop a handful of the Garden-tone in it, and mix it into the container mix in the bottom of the hole with a gardening fork (or any similar tool, like a trowel, etc). I fill in around the seedling, then I take another handful of Garden-tone and spread it in about a one-foot circle around the plant. I mix this into the top inch or two of container mix. Then I scatter a tablespoon or two of epsom salt on top of the container mix, and I water in the seedling with a half-gallon to a gallon of the fish-seaweed mix, diluted according to instructions on the bottle (like a tablespoon per gallon, two tablespoons per gallon, whatever it says to use). I do not worry about exact amounts on this, I simply want the container mix to be moist to the bottom afterward. I scatter another handful of Garden-tone on top of the container mix when the plants start to set fruit. I have used Garden-tone this way, Plant-tone, Tomato-tone, generic 5-10-10, a mix of different products, etc. In between transplanting into the containers and adding the handful of fertilizer when fruitset starts, I just watch the plants. If they look a little yellow, especially the lower leaves, I will give them another gallon of the fish emulsion/seaweed mix for a boost. It takes a week or two to show results, so do not panic if you see no change a few days later. I am unfamiliar with the other fertilizers you mentioned, but mainly just watch the plants. If the lower leaves start to yellow, they need more nitrogen (fish emulsion is an easy way to add it if you have that). If the growing tips start to yellow, they need more iron (I use a liquid chelated iron for plants for this, sprayed on). Good luck. __________________ -- alias

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May 31, 2012	#2
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	Growing in containers is a lot different than growing in garden soil. You have to be very careful adding compost, manures and the like as they don't allow for good aeration to the roots. They become compacted. Its also a good idea to understand why you use, or add a certain product. Most will tell you eggshells, ground up or otherwise will not break down for years, if then. You seem to be selecting solid, organic ferts which work a great deal better in the ground than in any container. LIquid ferts are the most readily and immediately available to your plants. We have many members growing good tomatoes in containers. Maybe you should visit the container forums? Most gardening sites, including this one have them.

June 4, 2012	#5
Ivy123 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Indianapolis zone 5 Posts: 37	( was alread told its far too early for squash bore worm,. Thats alot of good info Dice...Im filing it away..Thank you so much (smile)..I chked all my plants with a fine toothed comb today ( not that vibrated one though, maybe later--grin}And found eggs under two lower leaves but nothing else (destroyed them. Found about 4 more a few days later, they met the same fate.. I quickly tossed the squash into quarantine....He was wilting a little but looks nice and perky today....Im going to water him in the am and then use one of these> neem/soap, Seven, Captain Jacks.Insecticidal soap or KIll him with kindness and use Neptumes harvest/ fish and seaweed fertilizer....if none of this works I'll bring out my scaple.. I gotta have something to eat with all those maters lol good luck everyone