Compost Tea risks?

[ArcherB]

I'm considering trying compost tea this year. To be more specific, tea, using almost pure rabbit manure, made in a 5 gallon bucket and aerated using an aquarium pump and an air stone for at least 24 hours.

My concern is e coli or other harmful bacteria that may be present when we eat vegetables like tomatoes or spinach uncooked. What is the risk? Are the benefits worth the trouble?

Thanks!

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by ArcherB

I'm considering trying compost tea this year. To be more specific, tea, using almost pure rabbit manure, made in a 5 gallon bucket and aerated using an aquarium pump and an air stone for at least 24 hours.

My concern is e coli or other harmful bacteria that may be present when we eat vegetables like tomatoes or spinach uncooked. What is the risk? Are the benefits worth the trouble?

Thanks!

The rule of thumb standard is 2 weeks for the UV rays from the sun to kill all harmful bacteria on foliage. Personally I believe that is overkill. When you aerate you should kill most harmful anaerobic bacteria already, so it should be less than 2 weeks in most cases. However the standard in organic is 2 weeks when sprayed directly on foliage crops like spinach, so you are on your own if less than that.


PS Why aerate 24 hours? It is better to aerate 3 days.

[ArcherB]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

PS Why aerate 24 hours? It is better to aerate 3 days.

24 hrs seemed to be the minimum and I don't want to keep adding molasses. I read that after 24 hrs, the sugars are pretty much used up. The plan was to kick it off on a Saturday morning and then use it sometime Sunday afternoon.

I'm still on the fence on this as it will require about a $25 investment for the pump, hose and aerator stone. Prying money from my accountant for garden stuff can be a challenge. We have no problems spending $30 for lunch, but if I want to spend it on the garden, I get, "We've spent enough on your garden already this year" so I have to prioritize my spending. Do I want new tomato cages, twine, lumber for my compost pile, tea making stuff, pesticides or fertilizer? My hope is that the tea will eliminate my need for pesticides and fertilizer (although, I don't see myself needing fertilizer this year).

What results have you gotten? All the comparisons I've seen have been with crappy soil. I'm not planning on that being a problem this year, per our earlier discussion. The only test I've seen with healthy soil showed no difference between the tea and no tea groups. Is it even worth the investment in time and money?

Also, does it have to be molasses as an energy source will will plain old cane sugar do?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by ArcherB

24 hrs seemed to be the minimum and I don't want to keep adding molasses. I read that after 24 hrs, the sugars are pretty much used up. The plan was to kick it off on a Saturday morning and then use it sometime Sunday afternoon.

I'm still on the fence on this as it will require about a $25 investment for the pump, hose and aerator stone. Prying money from my accountant for garden stuff can be a challenge. We have no problems spending $30 for lunch, but if I want to spend it on the garden, I get, "We've spent enough on your garden already this year" so I have to prioritize my spending. Do I want new tomato cages, twine, lumber for my compost pile, tea making stuff, pesticides or fertilizer? My hope is that the tea will eliminate my need for pesticides and fertilizer (although, I don't see myself needing fertilizer this year).

What results have you gotten? All the comparisons I've seen have been with crappy soil. I'm not planning on that being a problem this year, per our earlier discussion. The only test I've seen with healthy soil showed no difference between the tea and no tea groups. Is it even worth the investment in time and money?

Also, does it have to be molasses as an energy source will will plain old cane sugar do?

People use molasses for the concentrate micronutrients and minerals but any simple sugar works. Also it is true most people say 24 hours. But I do it 3 days. Maybe in this case it is me that overdoes it? I use 3 days mostly because I don't use the packaged bacteria mixes to inoculate. I figure it takes slightly longer for the beneficial bacterias to get in there. Back when I did it was years and years ago before the bacteria inoculations were commonly available. But I admit it is unscientific. I simply came up with that myself. Seemed to work for me.

Here is a vid on it by an expert. Compost tea for big veggies

[Tracydr]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

The rule of thumb standard is 2 weeks for the UV rays from the sun to kill all harmful bacteria on foliage. Personally I believe that is overkill. When you aerate you should kill most harmful anaerobic bacteria already, so it should be less than 2 weeks in most cases. However the standard in organic is 2 weeks when sprayed directly on foliage crops like spinach, so you are on your own if less than that.


PS Why aerate 24 hours? It is better to aerate 3 days.

E.coli is not anaerobic. Botulism is anaerobic, which is why it loves to grow in improperly canned foods but e.coli is a gram negative aerobic bacteria.
I agree that 2weeks may be overkill, unless the manure comes from a cattle feedlot or commercial poultry farm, where some of the deadly strains of e.coli reside in the poop.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

E.coli is not anaerobic. Botulism is anaerobic, which is why it loves to grow in improperly canned foods but e.coli is a gram negative aerobic bacteria.
I agree that 2weeks may be overkill, unless the manure comes from a cattle feedlot or commercial poultry farm, where some of the deadly strains of e.coli reside in the poop.

Actually I didn't want to get too technical, but E coli is a facultative anaerobic bacteria. That's why I mentioned the UV rays. It is an anaerobic bacteria, but it can also survive by aerobic respiration if oxygen is present. So even after the compost tea is made and aerated (which deals with most the bad bacteria and replaces it with beneficial bacteria) you still need time after spraying it on your crops as a foliar spray to kill the few exceptions. As I was saying the standard is 2 weeks. I personally think 2 weeks is overkill. But that is the standard just to be perfectly safe. Food safety and proper manure use is actually a big issue for organic growers. People being careless with manure has actually caused a few recalls from foodborne illness.

PS I agree 100% what you said about stock yards or any CAFO manure of any type being far more dangerous. So maybe the 2 week thing is based on that?

[ArcherB]

I saw that vid and it is what got me interested in the first place. I don't plan on growing a 70 lb celery stock, but plants that can resist russet mites would sure be nice!

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by ArcherB

I saw that vid and it is what got me interested in the first place. I don't plan on growing a 70 lb celery stock, but plants that can resist russet mites would sure be nice!

Keep in mind that there is a large combination of factors. He grows giant veggie cultivars to start with, and grows in very good soil, and does have the benefit of long days, although he downplayed it. So likely you won't get 70 pound celery or apple sized Brussels sprouts. But other people grow those same giant cultivars, and they don't have the world records! So you can't discount the method entirely.

But does compost tea and manure tea work? Yes, it does. Is it a miracle that solves all your fertiliser, pest and disease issues? Nope.

It is just 1 tool of many.

I will tell you this though. I used it first with a 50/50 mix of aged rabbit and chicken manure. (That had sat outside in a traditional old school "manure pile" all fall and winter long.) I was stunned how effective it was. But I didn't do a side by side comparison in any kind of scientific trial or anything like that. I just know the garden that year grew wonderful and I won blue ribbons at the county fair for my veggies. So I have been using it ever since when I have manure available. (I haven't always had manure available)

[tqn626]

I used compost tea extensively, the 24 hour brewing period really depends on how much aeration you get into your tea and how much Molasses you put into it.

The main reason for brewing tea is for the microbes. I used mines as a fertilizer and disease prevention also.

I never tried brewing tea with any animal manure except bat gauno and seabird guano.

My tea mainly consist of:

Worm castings (Bacteria, Humic Acid, enzymes)
Humus ( Bacteria or Fungal)
Bat guano (High N/P depending on growth stage)
Molassus ( Feeds bacteria)
Concentrated Humic/Fulvic Acid (Helps nutrients uptake)
Rock dust or Kelp extract (Trace Minerals)

Optional:
Fish Emulsion (Nitrogen)
Seabird Guano (NPK)

If you go to walmart you can get a 20-80 gallon aquarium pump for 11 dollars, round air stones 4 for 3 dollars, and tubing for 2 dollars, T sperators for a dollar. I assume you already have a 5 gallon bucket.

Remember when you're making compost tea for fertilizing, account for the dilution afterwards.

I never killed any plants using straight compost tea, I usually dilute it using a 1 compost tea to 4 water ratio. Make sure you use dechlorinated water.

If your compost tea spells funky, throw it out. This can be caused by a couple of factors, Bacteria population explosion, not enough Aeration, bad compost mix, etc.
Your tea should smell like the earth, a little bit sweet.

[kygreg]

tgn

How much molasses do you use? Ever had a problems with using to much?

[tqn626]

2-3 tablespoons per 5 gallon bucket molasses over a 24-36ish hour period. Never had problems with using too much, but I got good aeration that will support the microbes. I brew my compost tea for 24-48 hours.

Too much molasses is really only a problem if you have poor aeration.

The best test you can do is to smell you tea, if it smells funky, it's bad. Make sure you use Unsulphured molasses, they sell it at target for 3 bucks a bottle.

A really easily way to have great aeration is to get one of those dual aquarium pumps like the one at walmart, then use an airline control valve, looks kinda like this

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lees-Aquar...l-Kit/19245229

They sell it in 2 pack for 2 dollars i think. My setup has this totaling 4 air stones. Make it so there an airstone at each side of the bucket West,East,south,north.

I recommend using a paint strainer as a tea bag, works great.

This is a great website to learn about compost tea recipes.

http://www.compostjunkie.com/compost-tea-recipe.html

[efisakov]

Does anyone add Mycorrhizae?
Ella

[tqn626]

Originally Posted by efisakov

Does anyone add Mycorrhizae?
Ella

From my research, Mycorrhizae should be added after you brew the tea. Mycorrhizae do not multiply in the tea, it only germinates when it's in contact with roots. Putting it in the tea helps the germination process when it hits the roots.

I usually use mycorrhizae when I transplant, never tried brewing it in my tea. I don't have the soluble version either so never tried brewing it.

[kygreg]

tgn,

thanks

I do use unsulfured molasses, air pump, paint strainers etc. I use the cloth ones that I get at Lowe's both 1 gal and 5 gal sizes.

I use about a cup of molasses in 9/10 gallon buckets.

[Alpinejs]

Reading this thread makes me think that compost tea is far more complicated than I want
to get involved with, so some questions before I give up on the tea idea.

I understand that chicken manure is too hot for tomato plants. True?


Would this work? Fill a burlap bag with chicken manure and submerse it in a 55 gal.
garbage can-like container filled with water and then after a few days, water the tomatoes with it. Is it
still too hot. Beneficial? Anyone done this?