Building a healthy organic soil

Faced1 · June 2, 2013

The task of building an organic soil is an art form. It can be a stick figure drawing, or you can go Monet with it.

Building soils for NPK values is one thing, but it is only part of what makes a plant healthy. A balance of proper hormones, fatty acids, slow/fast decaying materials, and fluffiness can really juice up your mix. I break the necessities (IMO) up into several categories. Food, minerals, microbe mix, aeration.

Food stuffs are things like-
bone meal
blood meal
all purpose organic ferts
rock phosphate
alfalfa

mineral sources are things like-
diatomaceous earth pool sand
gypsum
green sand
kelp
lime
azomite
rock dusts
shredded coconut
flax or other seed meals

microbe mixes are things like-
composted peat moss
compost (diy or store bought)
earthworm castings
animal manures
leaf mold
mushroom compost

aeration items can be-
coco coir
vermiculite
rice or other grain hulls
perlite
pumice
chunky diatomaceous earth

per 25 gallon tote-
5 bricks eco earth brand coco (12-13 gallons)
1.5 cu ft compost (bagged variety)
1/2 gallon fine vermiculite
3 cups kelp meal
3 cups bone meal
2 cups alfalfa meal
2 cups espoma bio tone starter plus
2 cups espoma garden tone
2 cups espoma plant tone
2 cups greensand
2 cups rock phosphate
2 cups composted peat moss
2 cups diatomaceous earth
2 cups diatomaceous earth pool sand
1/2 cup gypsum
1/2 cup espoma tomato tone
1/2 cup unsweetened coconut
1/2 cup flax seed meal

the coir was hydrated with tap water (135 ppm, tested with hannah 9813-6) then allowed to sit in the rain and be flushed of all excess salts. after a week exposed to the elements the coir began to turn black and show some evidence of composting/bacterial breakdown. when bacterial decomposition had begun, additives were mixed in and allowed to sit for a week before transplanting.

this mixture is tailored around a high CEC (cation exchange capacity), air filled porosity, bacterial diversity, a large amount of ingredients with auxins/cytokinenins/gibberlins in addition to npk values, and a balance of short/long breakdown materials. I am going to dump the totes at the end of the season and add back more alfalfa, kelp, coconut meat, and flax before it composts over the winter.

i brew compost teas as well, my recipe is (per 13 gallons)-
1 cup compost
1 cup alfalfa
1 cup kelp
1/3 cup blackstrap molasses
3 mL liquid humic additive

i use a long sock to hold the dry tea ingredients, and before i begin brewing, i submerge the sock and squeeze it several times to moisten the ingredients and get the microscopic particulate into the water to be colonized by bacteria. this tea is watered down 1:3, so a batch makes a little over 50 gallons. after brewing, the once dry tea ingredients are used as top dressing for the plants.

here you can see the mychorrhizal fungi colonizing the soil.
20130520_152701.jpg

a basil plant's root ball during transplant
20130426_145717.jpg

a couple tomatoes when they got transplanted from two gallon containers into 18 gallon totes (2 weeks ago)

20130528_194213.jpg
20130528_194033.jpg

same basil plant, 3 weeks later
20130528_193835.jpg

COMPOSTER · June 4, 2013

It sounds interesting but what is your goal? Are you adding this to bagged soil? Don't a lot of these ingredients overlap? Any possibility you could accomplish around 90% of the same thing with 3 to 5 inputs? What is the application rate?

Glenn

Faced1 · June 4, 2013

In am not starting with bagged soil. I am starting with bricks of coco fiber, and adding some compost.

These are large containers (16 gal+) and the goal is to not use any water soluble nutrients (botanicare, GH, general organics, etc). The only ingredients that overlap are the plant tone, garden tone, and bio tone starter plus. The reason I overlap them is because some of them have different bacterial and fungal inoculants. They also have different balances of quick/long term breakdown ingredients and I'm just going with what my experiments over five years growing indoors taught me.

I grew medical marijuana in a legal state for 5 years before moving back to WV, and with this recipe I could run the same soil batch for a year and only add back a small amount of stuff each run. Mostly kelp, alfalfa, coconut, and flax. Pot and tomatoes are both heavy feeders, so if this recipe works for one, it is bound to work for the other. So far the plants are beastly compared to all my neighbors, the one guy actually came over and asked how I was doing things they looked so nice.

Application rates are listed right there in the original post.

No way could I accomplish the nutritional balance, root zone aeration, nutrient availability, cation exchange, and high BRIX content that my other crops using this mix have displayed with a smaller list. The hormones from the kelp, alfalfa, coconut, cocoa, and flax really have a big influence in the health and vigor of the plant also.

I listed the categories of food, minerals, microbe mixes, and aeration because I feel those are the necessary aspects of any good soil. A healthy soil needs to be able to feed bacteria. Those same bacteria need minerals (micronutrients). You need a source of inoculation for your medium, and it needs aeration and the ability to avoid compaction.

Caring for those four aspects (food, minerals, microbes, aeration) leads to a healthy rhizosphere, and efficient nutrient uptake.

Redbaron · June 4, 2013

That is quite a recipe. I can see a few things I might try to modify it slightly, but not before I tried it "as is" first.

I don't grow in containers, but I think it is an excellent recipe for potting up seedlings and for the "special dirt" I use at transplant time since I don't use tillage.

I'll be writing this one down as a possibility for next year.

COMPOSTER · June 6, 2013

Ok, forgive my ignorance and have patience with my questions. This is a bit too scientific for me but I want to understand what you are doing. You really caught my intention with the "mychorrhizal fungi colonizing the soil" and " high BRIX content that my other crops using this mix have displayed." All these ingredients go into 1 25 gallon tote and the growing medium is the coco brix and bagged compost?

Glenn

RayR · June 6, 2013

That's not mychorrhizal fungi, they are microscopic, only associate and grow on living roots and definitely don't grow above ground. Ectomychorrhizal fungi which only associate with certain tree species do form fruiting bodies above ground, but those are mushrooms. Endomychorrhizal fungi never appear above the soil.
What Faced1 has there is a common saprophytic fungi (mold) feeding off the dead organic matter.

greenthumbomaha · December 28, 2013

Any follow up or modifications suggested for this? I believe the OP was an indoor gardener that was transitioning to outdoor containers.

- Lisa

Hermitian · December 28, 2013

For container soils, I like to use:

2 parts ground canadian peat moss; e.g. Sunshine 3.8 cu.ft. bags
2 parts cured compost (not mulch, fine grained compost cured in 100 cu.yd. batches)
1 part horticultural sand (what a rock quarry would call "three thirtysecondths minus")
1/1000 part powdered mycorrhizae in dehydrated humic acid

I believe the granulated, powdered rock ("horticultural sand") is essential to any soil mix for plants requiring a true soil -- and missing from nearly all commercially packaged soils. Sadly, this is because it adds significant weight and the extra cost of shipping is non-competitive. If you are just going to make a cubic yard, then the mycorrhizae quantity is 2 cups.

drew51 · December 28, 2013

I think we each have our methods of madness. More is not better, and can actually be worse Certain mineral levels if too high are toxic. All nutrients can be supplied by liquid such as foliage pro which has NPK and all the essential minerals. Rock dust ,azomite and other minerals scare me a bit because of the heavy metal content. It is low, but the soil already contains heavy metals and adding more makes little sense. I prefer to add only what really is needed. I use other fertilizers for boosts, and I know exactly what they are. I'm a big fan of the sulfates as I grow blueberries and that was where I tried ammonium sulfate as a boost to growth and to lower PH. Wow, that stuff works! For tomatoes calcium sulfate makes more sense, and maybe magnesium sulfate as a foliage spray. Absorption seems to be better with foliage spray. Also kelp as a foliage spray or added to water is an organic method.
I'm always up for experimenting, and I bet this mix does work well. But it's not the only fish in the sea. I like to consider economic factors too. Many of the items are expensive and you really don't get much bang for your buck. Cheaper alternatives exist, such as chemical fertilizers. The way I see it, the plant does not care how it receives nutrition. Organic or chemical, it's all organic to me having studied chemistry, everything organic or not are just chemical mixtures. What's ironic is organics add more contaminants than chemical fertilizers. Organic is such a misnomer as far as I'm concerned. The sulfates I mentioned do not contain mercury, but azomite does, even the company admits to that.
They also admit it contains Arsenic (As), Cadmium (Cd) and Lead too! None of these are in the sulfates.

I'm not a fan of vermiculite either. It breaks down in about 2 years. Turns to mush. Which is OK for potting soilds as you should replace your soil every 3 years at most. Still i would use perlite instead. Pumice never breaks down. Well maybe in 20 thousand years. Perlite will break down too, but lasts a long time.
mychorrhizal fungi are great if you have the right species for what you are growing.

Hermitian · December 28, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew51

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I think we each have our methods of madness. More is not better, and can actually be worse Certain mineral levels if too high are toxic. All nutrients can be supplied by liquid such as foliage pro which has NPK and all the essential minerals. Rock dust ,azomite and other minerals scare me a bit because of the heavy metal content. ...

Contrary to popular belief and advertising, rock dust typically does not supply any minerals that are available to plants. Fresh igneous and metamorphic rock mineral from quarries will not be broken down by healthy soil processes in manner significant to plants within our life time -- or century for that matter.

However, soil-based plants benefit from a percentage of rock gravels, sands, and silts as catalytic surfaces for ionic processes. For this to occur, humic substances from well-cured compost or humic acids need to be present.

I agree that metal content in some rock products is scary: Azomite is off the chart in aluminum nitrate. However, people do see results from it because it is doped with seaweed extract. Further, seaweed extract is another product that is touted for its mineral content -- and yet plants can't access those minerals! It is the gibberellic acid (a hormone) in agricultural seaweed extract that boosts performance.

Redbaron · December 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermitian

Contrary to popular belief and advertising, rock dust typically does not supply any minerals that are available to plants. Fresh igneous and metamorphic rock mineral from quarries will not be broken down by healthy soil processes in manner significant to plants within our life time -- or century for that matter.

However, soil-based plants benefit from a percentage of rock gravels, sands, and silts as catalytic surfaces for ionic processes. For this to occur, humic substances from well-cured compost or humic acids need to be present.

I agree that metal content in some rock products is scary: Azomite is off the chart in aluminum nitrate. However, people do see results from it because it is doped with seaweed extract. Further, seaweed extract is another product that is touted for its mineral content -- and yet plants can't access those minerals! It is the gibberellic acid (a hormone) in agricultural seaweed extract that boosts performance.

1) Depends what you mean. As potting soil? Nope, that would take years. As soil additive in the ground? Absolutely it will be made available to the plants. It is a process called mineralization. Basically you are right. Unavailable to plants, but it is available to certain forms of bacteria, which then get eaten by protozoa and other soil animal life like worms and then that waste is consumed by fungus, which is also consumed by those protozoa, worms etc.... The real question is do you have enough life in the soil to make available these minerals for the plants? If you have a very active biology in the soil, those minerals from rock dust and seaweed will be available to the plants. In fact, plants can even signal certain beneficial bacteria and fungus what they need specifically, and have the microbiology go get it for them.

Hermitian · December 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbaron

1) Depends what you mean. As potting soil? Nope, that would take years. As soil additive in the ground? Absolutely it will be made available to the plants. It is a process called mineralization. Basically you are right. Unavailable to plants, but it is available to certain forms of bacteria, which then get eaten by protozoa and other soil animal life like worms and then that waste is consumed by fungus, which is also consumed by those protozoa, worms etc.... The real question is do you have enough life in the soil to make available these minerals for the plants? If you have a very active biology in the soil, those minerals from rock dust and seaweed will be available to the plants. In fact, plants can even signal certain beneficial bacteria and fungus what they need specifically, and have the microbiology go get it for them.

The material in question (rock from gravel quarries) is not decomposed by bacteria in any significant quantity on a timeline of years or decades. If you want to talk about decomposition from acid, then yes it can occur but your plants would be dead from the acid concentration.

For other types of rock minerals, yes mineralization is possible in many cases.

Redbaron · December 30, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermitian

The material in question (rock from gravel quarries) is not decomposed by bacteria in any significant quantity on a timeline of years or decades. If you want to talk about decomposition from acid, then yes it can occur but your plants would be dead from the acid concentration.

For other types of rock minerals, yes mineralization is possible in many cases.

Many forms of life actually have acid in their digestive systems, and that doesn't mean they make the soil actually acidic over all.

drew51 · December 28, 2013

Some truth to the fact also that the calcium in bone meal will not be available for about ten years. And the calcium in gypsum is not going anywhere either. Lime is better, but still limited. I would use it anyway. But I'm pretty sure the calcium in calcium sulfate is going to be available.

drew51 · December 30, 2013

Bacteria counts are lower in container soils. Usually no worms. Often bacteria are killed from the conditions. The soil is warmed a lot more. Plus even if there, the process could take decades. I would agree in ground it is probably useful, even if it takes decades. I plan to farm the same spots for years and years. One of the largest problems with in ground is keeping the nitrogen levels high. Plants use a huge amount.

June 2, 2013	#1
Faced1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2013 Location: WV Posts: 14	Building a healthy organic soil The task of building an organic soil is an art form. It can be a stick figure drawing, or you can go Monet with it. Building soils for NPK values is one thing, but it is only part of what makes a plant healthy. A balance of proper hormones, fatty acids, slow/fast decaying materials, and fluffiness can really juice up your mix. I break the necessities (IMO) up into several categories. Food, minerals, microbe mix, aeration. Food stuffs are things like- bone meal blood meal all purpose organic ferts rock phosphate alfalfa mineral sources are things like- diatomaceous earth pool sand gypsum green sand kelp lime azomite rock dusts shredded coconut flax or other seed meals microbe mixes are things like- composted peat moss compost (diy or store bought) earthworm castings animal manures leaf mold mushroom compost aeration items can be- coco coir vermiculite rice or other grain hulls perlite pumice chunky diatomaceous earth per 25 gallon tote- 5 bricks eco earth brand coco (12-13 gallons) 1.5 cu ft compost (bagged variety) 1/2 gallon fine vermiculite 3 cups kelp meal 3 cups bone meal 2 cups alfalfa meal 2 cups espoma bio tone starter plus 2 cups espoma garden tone 2 cups espoma plant tone 2 cups greensand 2 cups rock phosphate 2 cups composted peat moss 2 cups diatomaceous earth 2 cups diatomaceous earth pool sand 1/2 cup gypsum 1/2 cup espoma tomato tone 1/2 cup unsweetened coconut 1/2 cup flax seed meal the coir was hydrated with tap water (135 ppm, tested with hannah 9813-6) then allowed to sit in the rain and be flushed of all excess salts. after a week exposed to the elements the coir began to turn black and show some evidence of composting/bacterial breakdown. when bacterial decomposition had begun, additives were mixed in and allowed to sit for a week before transplanting. this mixture is tailored around a high CEC (cation exchange capacity), air filled porosity, bacterial diversity, a large amount of ingredients with auxins/cytokinenins/gibberlins in addition to npk values, and a balance of short/long breakdown materials. I am going to dump the totes at the end of the season and add back more alfalfa, kelp, coconut meat, and flax before it composts over the winter. i brew compost teas as well, my recipe is (per 13 gallons)- 1 cup compost 1 cup alfalfa 1 cup kelp 1/3 cup blackstrap molasses 3 mL liquid humic additive i use a long sock to hold the dry tea ingredients, and before i begin brewing, i submerge the sock and squeeze it several times to moisten the ingredients and get the microscopic particulate into the water to be colonized by bacteria. this tea is watered down 1:3, so a batch makes a little over 50 gallons. after brewing, the once dry tea ingredients are used as top dressing for the plants. here you can see the mychorrhizal fungi colonizing the soil. 20130520_152701.jpg a basil plant's root ball during transplant 20130426_145717.jpg a couple tomatoes when they got transplanted from two gallon containers into 18 gallon totes (2 weeks ago) 20130528_194213.jpg 20130528_194033.jpg same basil plant, 3 weeks later 20130528_193835.jpg

June 4, 2013	#4
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	That is quite a recipe. I can see a few things I might try to modify it slightly, but not before I tried it "as is" first. I don't grow in containers, but I think it is an excellent recipe for potting up seedlings and for the "special dirt" I use at transplant time since I don't use tillage. I'll be writing this one down as a possibility for next year. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

December 28, 2013	#8
Hermitian BANNED Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,112	For container soils, I like to use: 2 parts ground canadian peat moss; e.g. Sunshine 3.8 cu.ft. bags 2 parts cured compost (not mulch, fine grained compost cured in 100 cu.yd. batches) 1 part horticultural sand (what a rock quarry would call "three thirtysecondths minus") 1/1000 part powdered mycorrhizae in dehydrated humic acid I believe the granulated, powdered rock ("horticultural sand") is essential to any soil mix for plants requiring a true soil -- and missing from nearly all commercially packaged soils. Sadly, this is because it adds significant weight and the extra cost of shipping is non-competitive. If you are just going to make a cubic yard, then the mycorrhizae quantity is 2 cups. __________________ Richard _<\|\|>_ Last edited by Hermitian; December 28, 2013 at 01:22 AM. Reason: "

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June 4, 2013	#2
COMPOSTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 252	It sounds interesting but what is your goal? Are you adding this to bagged soil? Don't a lot of these ingredients overlap? Any possibility you could accomplish around 90% of the same thing with 3 to 5 inputs? What is the application rate? Glenn

June 6, 2013	#5
COMPOSTER Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Connecticut Posts: 252	Ok, forgive my ignorance and have patience with my questions. This is a bit too scientific for me but I want to understand what you are doing. You really caught my intention with the "mychorrhizal fungi colonizing the soil" and " high BRIX content that my other crops using this mix have displayed." All these ingredients go into 1 25 gallon tote and the growing medium is the coco brix and bagged compost? Glenn

June 6, 2013	#6
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	That's not mychorrhizal fungi, they are microscopic, only associate and grow on living roots and definitely don't grow above ground. Ectomychorrhizal fungi which only associate with certain tree species do form fruiting bodies above ground, but those are mushrooms. Endomychorrhizal fungi never appear above the soil. What Faced1 has there is a common saprophytic fungi (mold) feeding off the dead organic matter.

December 28, 2013	#7
greenthumbomaha Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Omaha Zone 5 Posts: 2,514	Any follow up or modifications suggested for this? I believe the OP was an indoor gardener that was transitioning to outdoor containers. - Lisa

December 28, 2013	#9
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	I think we each have our methods of madness. More is not better, and can actually be worse Certain mineral levels if too high are toxic. All nutrients can be supplied by liquid such as foliage pro which has NPK and all the essential minerals. Rock dust ,azomite and other minerals scare me a bit because of the heavy metal content. It is low, but the soil already contains heavy metals and adding more makes little sense. I prefer to add only what really is needed. I use other fertilizers for boosts, and I know exactly what they are. I'm a big fan of the sulfates as I grow blueberries and that was where I tried ammonium sulfate as a boost to growth and to lower PH. Wow, that stuff works! For tomatoes calcium sulfate makes more sense, and maybe magnesium sulfate as a foliage spray. Absorption seems to be better with foliage spray. Also kelp as a foliage spray or added to water is an organic method. I'm always up for experimenting, and I bet this mix does work well. But it's not the only fish in the sea. I like to consider economic factors too. Many of the items are expensive and you really don't get much bang for your buck. Cheaper alternatives exist, such as chemical fertilizers. The way I see it, the plant does not care how it receives nutrition. Organic or chemical, it's all organic to me having studied chemistry, everything organic or not are just chemical mixtures. What's ironic is organics add more contaminants than chemical fertilizers. Organic is such a misnomer as far as I'm concerned. The sulfates I mentioned do not contain mercury, but azomite does, even the company admits to that. They also admit it contains Arsenic (As), Cadmium (Cd) and Lead too! None of these are in the sulfates. I'm not a fan of vermiculite either. It breaks down in about 2 years. Turns to mush. Which is OK for potting soilds as you should replace your soil every 3 years at most. Still i would use perlite instead. Pumice never breaks down. Well maybe in 20 thousand years. Perlite will break down too, but lasts a long time. mychorrhizal fungi are great if you have the right species for what you are growing.

December 30, 2013	#15
drew51 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Sterling Heights, MI Zone 6a/5b Posts: 1,302	Bacteria counts are lower in container soils. Usually no worms. Often bacteria are killed from the conditions. The soil is warmed a lot more. Plus even if there, the process could take decades. I would agree in ground it is probably useful, even if it takes decades. I plan to farm the same spots for years and years. One of the largest problems with in ground is keeping the nitrogen levels high. Plants use a huge amount.