Need some advice on growing Sara's Galapagos

[cythaenopsis]

Last year I learned about Sara's Galapagos and wanted to try out this variety next growing season. So despite the difficult germination rate, I gave it a go. And what I read was correct--I had only 10% germination! But thankfully I got what I did, which was 7 healthy sprouts. In contrast, the seeds I harvested from Black Krim fruit last year had like an 80% germination rate!

Anyway, I ended up with 4 really good plants, gave away 3 and kept 1. I transplanted it from the 4" pot into a sub irrigated container about 5 days ago and it is doing very well. I'm starting to see flower buds now.



However, I'm getting lots of low lying branches, right at the soil level. I've heard all the horror stories about soil contamination and how you should prune the lowest branches to help shield the leaves from soil splash. But if I did that, I'd lose over 40% of leaf coverage! For the time being, I put down a plastic barrier between the potting mix and low branches. But I'm wondering if I should prune those lower leaves, or if this is "typical SG growth". I have no prior experience growing this variety. Are there any other considerations that are special to this variety over your traditional heirloom tomato plants?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by cythaenopsis

Last year I learned about Sara's Galapagos and wanted to try out this variety next growing season. So despite the difficult germination rate, I gave it a go. And what I read was correct--I had only 10% germination! But thankfully I got what I did, which was 7 healthy sprouts. In contrast, the seeds I harvested from Black Krim fruit last year had like an 80% germination rate!

Anyway, I ended up with 4 really good plants, gave away 3 and kept 1. I transplanted it from the 4" pot into a sub irrigated container about 5 days ago and it is doing very well. I'm starting to see flower buds now.



However, I'm getting lots of low lying branches, right at the soil level. I've heard all the horror stories about soil contamination and how you should prune the lowest branches to help shield the leaves from soil splash. But if I did that, I'd lose over 40% of leaf coverage! For the time being, I put down a plastic barrier between the potting mix and low branches. But I'm wondering if I should prune those lower leaves, or if this is "typical SG growth". I have no prior experience growing this variety. Are there any other considerations that are special to this variety over your traditional heirloom tomato plants?

No, no special conditions at all. I am the person who first introduced it, see Tania's page:

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

When Amy got home from the Galapagos she sent fruits directly to me and since I'd asked her to get some S. cheesmanii for me when I saw the red, that's when I contacted Dr, Chatelet at the Rick Center.I planted the wet unprocessed seeds and seedlings popped up all over the seed container I was using, and that b'c I wanted to grow them out that summer, and it was getting very late.

He knew what was on each island and was able to tell me, since I did know which island, that it was a stable interspecies cross and not a true currant, but it walks and talks and tastes like a currant to me, actually it's the only "currant" I would grow if I grew one again.

Tania says exherted stigma, I never checked, but as a precaution always grew it away from my regular tomatoes.

Just curious, but what was your seed source? And I ask b'c ones that are currants or partially currants almost always have high germination levels for me and I grew it several times for new seed stock for my SSE listing and also offered it here at Tvillein my annual seed offer for quite a few years as well. And as I recall in the germination thread no one had low germination.

Glad you got some plants but with 10% of your total seeds that meant that you had about 70 or seeds to work with and I only know one place that might have sent that many seeds but I don't have that catalog near me to confirm they are still listing it.

Which is why I wanted to know your seed source, you can PM me if you wish if you don't want to mention it here in your thread.

Carolyn, and yes, being partially a species branches and leaves will appear low, I never did anything about that and the plants thrived and bore superbly.But if you feel better, well, it's your choice. I guess your concern is from splashback reinfection, I don't know what lurks in your soil from preverious years.

Edited to add that I just saw you have it growing in potting mix and I guess intend to grow it to maturity there, not outside in what I call real dirt. I wouldn't expect to find splashback pathogens from fresh potting mix.

[cythaenopsis]

Hey Carolyn, I knew I should have contacted you about this! I do remember reading how you introduced Sara's Galapagos to the USA.

I bought my seed from Gary Pilarchik who authors The Rusted Garden blog. He had cautioned me in a YouTube message that they do have a low germination rate (65% was his estimate), so I was expecting it to be low... just not as low as I experienced. But I'm amazed to hear that this hasn't been the case for you. Perhaps the low germination was due to insufficient warmth. Gary recommends 80+F. I used a heating pad and so it might have been around 70F. Plus I didn't use a grow light.

I had used an all purpose potting mix for starting seeds, and used this with the Black Krim seeds I'd saved off from last year and the Russian Oxheart I'd bought. The Black Krim seeds were the most prolific growers, followed by the Russian Oxheart and Black Plum. I also used a wet paper towel method, with a portion of seeds as well. Those germinated pretty quickly (white roots penetrated the paper in short order, reading down into the reservoir), but the Sara's Galapagos did nothing even after 2 weeks. Unfortunately I wasn't very scientific and just mixed in those seeds with others in potting mix, in hopes the change of medium would have helped. So I don't know which ones came from the wet paper towel start and which were started directly in the potting mix.

Anyway, this was my first year starting from seed and I learned a lot. First and foremost, the miracle of seeds. It's just amazing to see them start out so small and become these monstrous plants. Next year I'm going to try providing a warmer environment and boost it with artificial light.

[carolyn137]

Maybe Gary's seeds were a bit old that he would suggest that 65% germination was OK?

Right now that doesn't matter b'c you have a plant and that's all that really matters.

If you decide to save seeds and do it by fermentation, just take those wee fruits and crush them between your thumb and first finger and throw them in the container, I use clear plastic one pint ones, to which you've added some water. They'll float, and you won't get nice tomato juice, which is why I said to use the water, but since the fruits are almost all seeds, and as long as you let that mold cover the top of the water to allow for fermentation, you're good to go.

Starting seeds in potting mix isn't the best and a temp of 80F is not necessary at all, but there's lots of info in the starting from seed forum to look at when you have time.

Carolyn

[cythaenopsis]

^ Thanks so much, Carolyn. Yes, I agree it's likely that the seeds may have been a little old, but like you said a healthy plant is all that matters. I had great luck fermenting the Black Krim seeds, as they turned out to give a high germination rate. But I can see how it'll be a little different with the much smaller Galapagos seeds. And I will make a point to educate myself on more optimal seed germination medium.

So I'm amazed at the growth. I'll have to post a new photo. I've got flowers already and clusters of buds. So small compared to other tomato plants! Also, plant "feels" more like a vine. Long crawling branches. I'm at a loss of how to manage it. Do you suggest pruning, beyond pulling suckers?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by cythaenopsis

^ Thanks so much, Carolyn. Yes, I agree it's likely that the seeds may have been a little old, but like you said a healthy plant is all that matters. I had great luck fermenting the Black Krim seeds, as they turned out to give a high germination rate. But I can see how it'll be a little different with the much smaller Galapagos seeds. And I will make a point to educate myself on more optimal seed germination medium.

So I'm amazed at the growth. I'll have to post a new photo. I've got flowers already and clusters of buds. So small compared to other tomato plants! Also, plant "feels" more like a vine. Long crawling branches. I'm at a loss of how to manage it. Do you suggest pruning, beyond pulling suckers?

I would call it rampant grow rather than viney.

If you have it inground, just mulch with some straw or otherwise and let it go, no pruning, or suckers, and it's suckers, aka lateral branches that you'd be pruning anyway.

I always grew my plant, one was enough, in a container on the other side of the house from where my regular tomatoes were growing.

I'm not one who either prunes or snaps off suckers, so they were just allowed to ramble as is their wont. Afterall, one parent is a species tomatoes and rambling is the usual plant habitat for most of them.

Carolyn

[cythaenopsis]

Interesting. I was under the impression that when growing tomato plants in containers that the confined space meant the plant would be stressed if allowed to grow too freely... thus trimming of most suckers to help moderate it and limit stress. This would also provide better airflow and reduce incidents of mold and fungus related issues. But perhaps that is only prudent for more common heirloom varieties?

The Sara's Galapagos tomato plant certainly looks to grow more densely and bush like compared to other heirloom varieties. [picture1], [picture2]

I'm hoping wind will take care of most fertilizing as vibrating each truss would be tedious beyond belief!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by cythaenopsis

Interesting. I was under the impression that when growing tomato plants in containers that the confined space meant the plant would be stressed if allowed to grow too freely... thus trimming of most suckers to help moderate it and limit stress. This would also provide better airflow and reduce incidents of mold and fungus related issues. But perhaps that is only prudent for more common heirloom varieties?

The Sara's Galapagos tomato plant certainly looks to grow more densely and bush like compared to other heirloom varieties. [picture1], [picture2]

I'm hoping wind will take care of most fertilizing as vibrating each truss would be tedious beyond belief!

Air flow is very important for those who live in southern states where there's a lot of high heat and humidity and they sometimes,don't leave enough room between plants.

But you and I live in more northern climes,where yes,we do have spells of high heat and humidity, but nothing like what many others experience.

As long as you use big enough containers the plant won't be stressed.Freda was here this am and finally got my few planted in containers,and they range from 12 gal gro bags to very large containers, although in the past when growing this variety I've grown it well with no obvious stress in a 5 gal container.

Carolyn

[cythaenopsis]

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. It does seem that those pruning recommendations came from people living further south, so I see what you mean by air flow being more crucial to them.

The container I'm using for the Sara's Galapagos plant is a 12 gallon size and I probably have about 10 gallons of potting mix in it.



This was taken two days ago, and already I've seen notable growth since then. The plant seems to be happy. I'm really curious to see how long it takes to set fruit and ripen. I'm expecting it'll reach about 4~5 feet being container bound, but the girth looks like it'll be bushier than I originally considered. I'll have to move it off to a corner so it doesn't overcrowd the pathway.

[cythaenopsis]

Carolyn, how many Sara's Galapagos plants are you growing this year? Do you find much variation in fruit size from plant to plant or year to year?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by cythaenopsis

Carolyn, how many Sara's Galapagos plants are you growing this year? Do you find much variation in fruit size from plant to plant or year to year?

The last time I grew it was quite a few years ago when I was still able to grow my own plants, but since Dec 12th, 2004 that hasn't been possible b/c I fell and severed all four quads in my right leg.

So now all that's grown here at home are usually 20-30 varieties, plants grown for me elsewhere and tended by the woman who does all my cleaning and gardening and this summer just 14 plants,most new ones for my next seed offer.

My seed producers are growing most of them for seed production but there are few I wanted to get to taste myself, although I know my seed producers well, have for a long time,and we generally agree on taste, etc.

And every time I did grow Sara's the plants and fruits were consistent, no differences in fruit sizes, ever, and it is a genetically stable variety.

Carolyn

[cythaenopsis]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

The last time I grew it was quite a few years ago when I was still able to grow my own plants, but since Dec 12th, 2004 that hasn't been possible b/c I fell and severed all four quads in my right leg.

Carolyn, I'm so sorry to hear this. I remember last year reading that you were having some health issues but recovered. I didn't realize you had a greater mobility issue that prevents you from getting around easy enough to grow plants.

So now all that's grown here at home are usually 20-30 varieties, plants grown for me elsewhere and tended by the woman who does all my cleaning and gardening and this summer just 14 plants,most new ones for my next seed offer.

My seed producers are growing most of them for seed production but there are few I wanted to get to taste myself, although I know my seed producers well, have for a long time,and we generally agree on taste, etc.

I'm glad to know this, so that you're at least able to enjoy a wonderful range of different heirloom tomato varieties. I'll have to check your other threads to see what you're having grown this year.

And every time I did grow Sara's the plants and fruits were consistent, no differences in fruit sizes, ever, and it is a genetically stable variety.

Good to know this. Any advice you might have on promoting fruit set for this variety, or is it pretty much as with any other heirloom? The flowers are so small... I'm afraid to flick/vibrate the trusses in trying to encourage pollination.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by cythaenopsis

Carolyn, I'm so sorry to hear this. I remember last year reading that you were having some health issues but recovered. I didn't realize you had a greater mobility issue that prevents you from getting around easy enough to grow plants.


I'm glad to know this, so that you're at least able to enjoy a wonderful range of different heirloom tomato varieties. I'll have to check your other threads to see what you're having grown this year.


Good to know this. Any advice you might have on promoting fruit set for this variety, or is it pretty much as with any other heirloom? The flowers are so small... I'm afraid to flick/vibrate the trusses in trying to encourage pollination.

You said you saw buds and blossoms so you should know by now that the fruiis are widely spaced on each truss and for me all of the blossoms set fruit, which is normal for the species parent of this variety.

Yes, the blossoms are small and look like shooting stars, also from the species parent of this variety.

I wouldn't do anything at all to help with pollination until you see yourself how the trusses set fruit and ripen up.

Carolyn

[cythaenopsis]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

You said you saw buds and blossoms so you should know by now that the fruiis are widely spaced on each truss and for me all of the blossoms set fruit, which is normal for the species parent of this variety.

Yes, the blossoms are small and look like shooting stars, also from the species parent of this variety.

I wouldn't do anything at all to help with pollination until you see yourself how the trusses set fruit and ripen up.

Carolyn

The plant is already getting rather bushy. Lots of little buds and flowers, spread out like you said. The main stem started to wander, but I correct it with some lashing to a post. I finally put in a bamboo tee-pee to help provide some support. The corner affords a decent amount of wind, so I'm hoping that'll help take care of the pollination. A couple of blossoms fell off... maybe accidentally damaged with my meddling. Eager to see some fruit set, but not sure if any have done so as yet (dried anther cones still hanging on). I had a bubble wrap layer over the soil to help retain moisture, but worried that it might promote mold/mildew once the hotter temperatures kick in so I removed it while I still had the chance. Looks like the "thicket" will help retain moisture in the top layer of soil naturally.





Incidentally, since I took those photos I "guided" some of the branches to help disperse the growth a bit. I've found that branches can end up getting tangled up with each other if not cared for. I'm hoping that will help promote better growth.


Just amazing to think that it all started out like this:

[cythaenopsis]

I searched around but couldn't find the thread (searched on "currant" by your username). I will make a point of reading up on currant focused articles though.

I'm a little concerned about cross pollination now, seeing as I'm growing it about 4~5 feet away from another variety of heirloom tomatoes. I wonder if the currant is different enough as to not be capable of cross pollinating with an heirloom of considerably different character. Or should I just forget about trying to save seed this year?