Prune or not...a.k.a. to beat a dead horse

[Anthony_Toronto]

After weighing in on the discussion of apparent differences in success of Brandywine Sudduth in the north vs. the south, I'm wondering if the results I'm seeing from no pruning might be impacted by my shorter growing season. For the last 4 or 5 seasons I have done almost no pruning, primarily as a result of what I've read here. Tough when using bamboo stakes, but I managed to get 25 or so indeterminate plants growing, as I had previously. Prior to that I had always done some pruning (or some ripping off of stems that required too much work or too many stakes...or used 'Missouri method' of pruning on excess side stems, pulling off the growing tip when stems were about a foot or so long, under the assumption that the leaves on the stem would still feed the plant). Aside from 1 or 2 early seasons (maybe 2003 and 2004) my pruning was not excessive, and most plants still had 5 or 6 primary stems with some additional side stems. With no pruning several plants had 10-12 primary stems coming off the main stem, again with some additional side stems.

However, I can honestly say that after 5 years of no pruning, the only difference I have seen is fewer large tomatoes, and fewer tomatoes overall. I was looking at pictures of my harvest from 2008, not a particularly good growing season up here, and I'd say it was definitely more than double the average that I've got in the last 5 seasons. Not only that but visiting gardens of others who did do more pruning (probably too much pruning), they seemed to have larger tomatoes and more tomatoes. I know the opinions on here and I know most will just blow this off as due to some other reason or due to me being mistaken about how many tomatoes I've been harvesting, but this year I'm going back to doing more plant management, just to see how it goes. The reality is that I could probably have one stem per plant and get more than enough for myself so if it doesn't work the only ones that will suffer is my many garden groupies who are already asking me when they'll get tomatoes from me!!

If anyone has tried pruning vs. not pruning over several seasons I'd like to hear about their results, especially if anyone has experienced what I have. And fuller bushier plants obviously leave more room for developing foliar diseases, but that doesn't seem to account for what I've seen.

[Worth1]

Austin Texas.


Toronto.

[Anthony_Toronto]

I should also mention that my tomatoes taste a lot better than those of my friends, so at least all of that foliage and photosynthesis is worth something. I don't necessarily need more tomatoes, but I prefer larger specimens because they are easier to peel (yeah I peel pretty much all of my heirlooms). More pruning will surely help with the foliar diseases I've been facing (more airflow/less moisture). Anyway I'll do things different this year, at least with most of the plants, and we will see what happens.

[FarmerShawn]

Anytime I have experimented with no pruning, and/or no staking, here in northeastern Vermont, I have confirmed for myself that spending the time to prune is worth it for me. I usually limit plants to one or two stems, sometimes three if one gets away from me or looks like it needs or can support the extra. All other health and harvest related actions are much easier with a limited plant. And I like bigger, better tomatoes that haven't rotted from sitting on the ground being invaded by wireworms and such.

[b54red]

I to try to limit my tomatoes to one or two stems but on some of the hearts that are so wispy I will go to 3 or even 4 sometimes. As the years have gone by my pruning has become more diligent and with it I have gotten better crops and healthier plants. A lot of that has to do with our incessant humidity and high disease pressure which can quickly turn an un-pruned plant into a diseased mess in short order. The pruned plant is also much easier to spray thoroughly with a fungicide weekly which helps a lot. As to flavor my tomatoes have generally gotten better but that is probably more a case of good soil preparation and Texas Tomato Food. Another reason my tomatoes taste better is because I have eliminated planting any varieties that have less than excellent eating qualities and taste. When I try a new tomato now I only give it one season and if it doesn't measure up I drop it unless we have a terribly rainy season and all the tomatoes are lacking. I do think the fruit is overall much larger on the well pruned plants. If I lived somewhere with far less disease pressure and a short season I would probably not prune so severely.

Bill

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by b54red

I to try to limit my tomatoes to one or two stems but on some of the hearts that are so wispy I will go to 3 or even 4 sometimes. As the years have gone by my pruning has become more diligent and with it I have gotten better crops and healthier plants. A lot of that has to do with our incessant humidity and high disease pressure which can quickly turn an un-pruned plant into a diseased mess in short order. The pruned plant is also much easier to spray thoroughly with a fungicide weekly which helps a lot. As to flavor my tomatoes have generally gotten better but that is probably more a case of good soil preparation and Texas Tomato Food. Another reason my tomatoes taste better is because I have eliminated planting any varieties that have less than excellent eating qualities and taste. When I try a new tomato now I only give it one season and if it doesn't measure up I drop it unless we have a terribly rainy season and all the tomatoes are lacking. I do think the fruit is overall much larger on the well pruned plants. If I lived somewhere with far less disease pressure and a short season I would probably not prune so severely.

Bill

I do almost the same way.
Other reason for pruning ,for me , is that I space my plants about 20" in the raised beds. I can support them to go up but cannot afford them to grow sideway.
However there are exception on the determinants. I will let them grow more branches but still do prune all the lower leaf branches and weak suckers.
I believe that most tomato plants grow too much foliage. Not all that much is needed for photosynthesis , if the get fair amount sun, direct and indirect.

Gardeneer

[b54red]

I rarely get a large tomato off Pruden's Purple because of the unbelievable fruit set I get on it each year. I am trying to refine my culling technique on varieties like PP and ISPL so that I can get a good balance between size and numbers. Pruden's is also one of the best varieties to set fruit in hot weather so I usually plant it out with the black tomato varieties and since it is planted later it naturally produces smaller fruit in the high heat of mid and late summer.

When I used to grow determinate tomatoes I found it was best to prune of the lowest hanging branches and then thin out the middle so air flow and sunlight could get to the plant better. Doing this I found that I actually got more fruit over a slightly longer period of time and larger fruit.

Bill

[PureHarvest]

Originally Posted by Anthony_Toronto

I should also mention that my tomatoes taste a lot better than those of my friends, so at least all of that foliage and photosynthesis is worth something. I don't necessarily need more tomatoes, but I prefer larger specimens because they are easier to peel (yeah I peel pretty much all of my heirlooms). More pruning will surely help with the foliar diseases I've been facing (more airflow/less moisture). Anyway I'll do things different this year, at least with most of the plants, and we will see what happens.

Try pinching off some flowers from each truss. So, if a truss puts out 9 blooms, pinch off some of them. Some people wait till the fruit have formed to about marble size so that they can eliminate any odd growing fruit.
I prune to about 4 flowers/truss. Still trying to refine this, and looking to try 5 this year. I am now getting more precise with nutrients and plant stage, so I'm hoping to push them to 5.

[Labradors2]

I have a couple of suggestions for you.

One is to grow varieties that yield large fruit.

The second is that, to settle this to your own satisfaction, you really need to grow a few plants of the same variety and prune half of the plants while letting the other half of the group grow free.

Have you tried Pruden's Purple? I grew that one last year, didn't prune it at all, and got lots of tomatoes weighing over a pound.

Linda

[ContainerTed]

My brother always prunes off suckers and lower foliage regardless. (BTW, I give him all his plants every year).

I always have to give him tomatoes all thruout the growing season. He says his are coming on slowly.

Nuff said.

[PureHarvest]

But Ted, what about the other parts of the equation, such as available nutrients, water, micro-climate differences, and other care?

Simply put, is pruning the ONLY difference between your grow outs?

Labradors2 comment above would be the less anecdotal approach:

"The second is that, to settle this to your own satisfaction, you really need to grow a few plants of the same variety and prune half of the plants while letting the other half of the group grow free."

[ContainerTed]

Already done that half a dozen times. I make sure about half of the plants my brother has are ones that I have a couple plants of.

This subject has been beaten around so much that the dead horse has completely decomposed. I have come to this conclusion. Folks who favor pruning will try to justify their methods and folks who don't will stump theirs. There's no way to win the comparison wars. So, I have taken this position.

The things that I do to bring in a tomato harvest are working very well for me. And I do not plan to change things at all anytime in the near future. So, save your pruning justifications for someone else. What methods you use are clearly the ones you want to work great for you. Keep it up. I hate to see a quitter. Your method is the one you chose and more power to you. I don't know your growing environment and you certainly don't know mine. On that, we're even.

I raise my glass of tomato juice and beer to great harvests for everyone.

Take care and good gardening.

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

But Ted, what about the other parts of the equation, such as available nutrients, water, micro-climate differences, and other care?

Simply put, is pruning the ONLY difference between your grow outs?

Labradors2 comment above would be the less anecdotal approach:

"The second is that, to settle this to your own satisfaction, you really need to grow a few plants of the same variety and prune half of the plants while letting the other half of the group grow free."

[BigVanVader]

I have tried both and tbh I think a lot depends on the variety and your location/growing conditions. PP was mentioned. Last year I grew PP and trimmed the low branches only, the plant set lots of fruit and nearly all were all over one pound. If you prune it heavily you will likely get close to the same weight but mostly smaller fruits. So it comes down to climate and what you prefer. If you live in heat/humidity like me, prune heavily to reduce disease pressure, if not it isn't as big a deal. Here is PP avg size with very little pruning. I was lucky last year with PP as it seemed to be resistant to many things that plagued my garden last year.

[PureHarvest]

Good grief. Am I in a GMO thread?
I was just asking a simple question to clarify the situation. I don't know you or your growing style, so I was asking for info to understand what was done by you and your bro.
Not trying to justify anything nor did I ever say one way was better than the other.
I apologize if you feel I categorized you as someone that is unscientific in your observations by the way I asked the question.

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

Good grief. Am I in a GMO thread?
I was just asking a simple question to clarify the situation. I don't know you or your growing style, so I was asking for info to understand what was done by you and your bro.
Not trying to justify anything nor did I ever say one way was better than the other.
I apologize if you feel I categorized you as someone that is unscientific in your observations by the way I asked the question.

Sorry that my post seemed coarse. For most of the older members, I'm well known as a "NON prune" advocate. I was only trying to bring you up to date on how much this subject has been jerked around on this website and many others. I hope you did not take offense by my direct statements.

I have probably the best soil in this half of the state of Tennessee in which to grow my garden. There are state and national publications that talk to the fertility of the soil here. My garden is located in what was an old pasture for more than 4 decades. It was also used to grow hay for cattle. Anything I plant literally "jumps" out of the ground.

Normally I plant about 4000 square feet. This coming season, I will be planting more than 5000 square feet plus a couple dozen containers and several straw bales.

I'm 71 years old and just finished chemo and radiation for lymphoma. I can assure you that I don't have either the time or inclination to prune. But I respect anyone's right to do their thing the way they see it.

And you're not on a GMO thread. Truth is, I didn't care much for that comment, but your perception is your reality.

To finish this, let me just say that I don't prune. My plants always give me several hundred pounds of tomatoes everytime I keep the cows behind the fence.

Take care and enjoy.