Need help and/or advice on my leggy plants

tlmcca · May 11, 2016

Hi all,

Let me start by describing the process I am using. This is my second season growing heirloom tomatoes from seed. I'm starting the plants in my basement using Burpee's XL Ultimate Growing System and a heat mat for germination and that has worked very well both years. For light I have used a single shop light from Home Depot with 2 48-inch T12 fluorescent lamps which I adjust to keep the lamps an inch or so from the top of the plants running the light 14 hours per day. Once the seedlings are about 4-inches tall and have their second set of true leaves I transplant to 6-inch pots with a mix of coir, worm casings and vermiculite. I keep the plants under the same lighting conditions until around the second week of May when I move them to the garage and start hardening them for the garden.

The plants spend about 30 days in the 6-inch pots before it is time to start hardening. During this period the plants shoot up and I end up with very leggy plants unlike what I see in nurseries. Everything I've read says legginess is a result of insufficient light so I have purchased a second fluorescent fixture and ganged the two together for next season hoping this will solve my legginess issue.

So this post is a call for help.

Is it reasonable to assume that doubling the amount of light will solve my problem?

Are there better approaches to positioning the lights other than directly above the plants? Side lighting for instance?

Would it be better to move the re-potted plants to a hoop tunnel outside if the temperature will be 50 degrees or warmer rather than keeping them inside under the lights?

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Terry

ginger2778 · May 11, 2016

Terry, the extra light will help with the seedlings transplanted to the 6" pots, they mostly were much further away from the light source due to expanding them out. Even in the 6" pots, they still need to be 1-2" away from the light.
If they are already 4" tall when you transplant to the 6" pots, and then they stay snother 30 days, it is my opinion that they are way over mature by the time you do their final transplant.
Most of us transplant the first time when the seedlings have their first set of true leaves, and we time our seed starting so that the seedlings are 5-6 weeks old by the time they go to their permanent homes.
I hope you find this helpful. I am sure others will have different ways of doing things, but I described mine, and my seedlings are no longer leggy for about the last 4 years.

tlmcca · May 11, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Terry, the extra light will help with the seedlings transplanted to the 6" pots, they mostly were much further away from the light source due to expanding them out. Even in the 6" pots, they still need to be 1-2" away from the light.
If they are already 4" tall when you transplant to the 6" pots, and then they stay snother 30 days, it is my opinion that they are way over mature by the time you do their final transplant.
Most of us transplant the first time when the seedlings have their first set of true leaves, and we time our seed starting so that the seedlings are 5-6 weeks old by the time they go to their permanent homes.
I hope you find this helpful. I am sure others will have different ways of doing things, but I described mine, and my seedlings are no longer leggy for about the last 4 years.

Thank you for the advice. I did take care to keep the light 1-2 inches away from the plant tops after re-potting but it seems I was starting too soon.

I've adjusted my schedule for next year to plant in the first week of April rather than the second week in March as had been my practice. That should leave a month from re-potting until I start hardening around the second week in May with plants going into the ground a week later.

Terry

Labradors2 · May 11, 2016

Marsha,

For the mathematically challenged how many weeks before plant out do you start your seeds?

Linda

ginger2778 · May 11, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Labradors2

Marsha,

For the mathematically challenged how many weeks before plant out do you start your seeds?

Linda

6 weeks.

Father'sDaughter · May 11, 2016

Only thing I'll add is that if you aren't already doing so, bury them almost up to the first true leaves when you transplant them to the larger pots.

ginger2778 · May 11, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Father'sDaughter

Only thing I'll add is that if you aren't already doing so, bury them almost up to the first true leaves when you transplant them to the larger pots.

Oh yeah! I forgot to put that part.

Father'sDaughter · May 11, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger2778

Oh yeah! I forgot to put that part.

I up-potted everything just last week which is why it's fresh in my mind. And I do the same with my pepper seedling just to keep the height manageable for the last several weeks under lights.

I'm hoping to move the tomatoes out to the mini green house late tomorrow since Friday and Saturday are supposed to be cloudy. Nights are still a bit too cool to take the peppers out.

Labradors2 · May 12, 2016

Thanks Marsha, I may have to try starting 6 weeks early instead of 9 weeks. My seedlings aren't leggy, but can get pretty big! Of course you do have warmer weather there and mine are sitting in a chilly basement.....

Linda

cassiani · June 16, 2016

If you want dense bushy plant use a fan. Put it at low and keep it on a few feet away from your plants at least the time your lights are on. Start when true leafs appear.
Growing inside should be done with minimum 35-50 watt of HID light per square foot. When you spend on lights, the lowest you should consider should be T8 or T5.

tlmcca · June 16, 2016

First let me thank everyone who offered their advice on my problem; it has been very valuable.

Rather than wait until next season to try starting the seeds with more light and risk another less than great outcome, I set up my tray with four seeds of each of the varieties I've been growing. I also added a second shop light with two fluorescent tubes doubling the amount of light. Germination went about as expected and after 17 days I transplanted the seedlings into my 6-inch pots.The addition of the light made all the difference. I now have six strong looking plants standing about 6-8 inches in height. I plan to start taking them out for hardening next week to complete the experiment. It will be too late to plant in the garden this season but my leggy plants have recovered nicely and the Black Cherry are setting fruit while the others are blossoming so I'll have tomatoes this year and a better experience going forward.

Thanks again,
Terry

May 11, 2016	#1
tlmcca Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2016 Location: Glen Carbon, IL Near St. Louis, Zone 6a Posts: 8	Need help and/or advice on my leggy plants Hi all, Let me start by describing the process I am using. This is my second season growing heirloom tomatoes from seed. I'm starting the plants in my basement using Burpee's XL Ultimate Growing System and a heat mat for germination and that has worked very well both years. For light I have used a single shop light from Home Depot with 2 48-inch T12 fluorescent lamps which I adjust to keep the lamps an inch or so from the top of the plants running the light 14 hours per day. Once the seedlings are about 4-inches tall and have their second set of true leaves I transplant to 6-inch pots with a mix of coir, worm casings and vermiculite. I keep the plants under the same lighting conditions until around the second week of May when I move them to the garage and start hardening them for the garden. The plants spend about 30 days in the 6-inch pots before it is time to start hardening. During this period the plants shoot up and I end up with very leggy plants unlike what I see in nurseries. Everything I've read says legginess is a result of insufficient light so I have purchased a second fluorescent fixture and ganged the two together for next season hoping this will solve my legginess issue. So this post is a call for help. Is it reasonable to assume that doubling the amount of light will solve my problem? Are there better approaches to positioning the lights other than directly above the plants? Side lighting for instance? Would it be better to move the re-potted plants to a hoop tunnel outside if the temperature will be 50 degrees or warmer rather than keeping them inside under the lights? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Terry

June 16, 2016	#11
tlmcca Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2016 Location: Glen Carbon, IL Near St. Louis, Zone 6a Posts: 8	Results of test seedlings using advice gained in this thread First let me thank everyone who offered their advice on my problem; it has been very valuable. Rather than wait until next season to try starting the seeds with more light and risk another less than great outcome, I set up my tray with four seeds of each of the varieties I've been growing. I also added a second shop light with two fluorescent tubes doubling the amount of light. Germination went about as expected and after 17 days I transplanted the seedlings into my 6-inch pots.The addition of the light made all the difference. I now have six strong looking plants standing about 6-8 inches in height. I plan to start taking them out for hardening next week to complete the experiment. It will be too late to plant in the garden this season but my leggy plants have recovered nicely and the Black Cherry are setting fruit while the others are blossoming so I'll have tomatoes this year and a better experience going forward. Thanks again, Terry

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May 11, 2016	#2
ginger2778 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Plantation, Florida zone 10 Posts: 9,283	Terry, the extra light will help with the seedlings transplanted to the 6" pots, they mostly were much further away from the light source due to expanding them out. Even in the 6" pots, they still need to be 1-2" away from the light. If they are already 4" tall when you transplant to the 6" pots, and then they stay snother 30 days, it is my opinion that they are way over mature by the time you do their final transplant. Most of us transplant the first time when the seedlings have their first set of true leaves, and we time our seed starting so that the seedlings are 5-6 weeks old by the time they go to their permanent homes. I hope you find this helpful. I am sure others will have different ways of doing things, but I described mine, and my seedlings are no longer leggy for about the last 4 years.

May 11, 2016	#4
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,896	Marsha, For the mathematically challenged how many weeks before plant out do you start your seeds? Linda

May 11, 2016	#6
Father'sDaughter Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: MA/NH Border Posts: 4,919	Only thing I'll add is that if you aren't already doing so, bury them almost up to the first true leaves when you transplant them to the larger pots.

May 12, 2016	#9
Labradors2 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ontario Posts: 3,896	Thanks Marsha, I may have to try starting 6 weeks early instead of 9 weeks. My seedlings aren't leggy, but can get pretty big! Of course you do have warmer weather there and mine are sitting in a chilly basement..... Linda

June 16, 2016	#10
cassiani Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: montreal Posts: 32	If you want dense bushy plant use a fan. Put it at low and keep it on a few feet away from your plants at least the time your lights are on. Start when true leafs appear. Growing inside should be done with minimum 35-50 watt of HID light per square foot. When you spend on lights, the lowest you should consider should be T8 or T5.