Seed saving and treatment tutorial

[Hellmanns]

I stumbled upon this, and thought I'd post it because of some of the seed treatments mentioned.

Tomato Seed Extraction and Treatment
As was mentioned previously, we do not recommend that growers save their own tomato seeds. With more varieties available as hybrids rather than standard types, the desire to save seed is diminishing. Still, there may be exceptional cases where a grower may wish to maintain a standard specialized variety. Tomatoes (and peppers) are self-pollinated crops. The amount of outcrossing in tomato with neighboring plants is quite low, usually a fraction of 1 percent. (For pepper, natural outcrossing is greater because of wind and insect pollinations; therefore, greater isolation by distance or use of natural barriers is required.) The main reason why seeds need to be properly extracted and treated is the potential contamination of bacterial canker, speck, and spot and tobacco mosaic virus (TMV).
Tomato Seed Extraction
The two methods of tomato seed extraction available are the fermentation process and acid extraction. For seed extraction by the fermentation process, thoroughly crush mature, disease-free fruit. Process the fruit with a tomato juicer and recombine all the juice, seed, and pulp into a suitable container (glass, plastic, or crockery) for fermenting. Fill the container half full and never add water as a substitute for tomato juice. Allow the fermenting process to continue at a temperature not over 70° F (21 ° C) for 96 hours. Stir the fermenting juices at least twice daily to submerge the pomace, which usually floats to the top. Separate the seeds from the pulp by repeatedly filling the container with water, stirring, and pouring off the water with flesh and skin fragments. Flush the seeds several times with jets of water to remove the fruit jelly that adheres to the seed. Spread the seed out on paper and allow them to dry for several days. The seed should then be treated with a fungicide seed-protectant (see Comell Recommends).
Clean seed extracted by mechanical means without fermentation should be acid treated. Immediately treat the wet seeds with an 0.8% solution of acetic acid (1 oz. of 99% acid in enough water to make 1 gal) for 24 hours at or below 70° F (21 ° C). Use USP-grade acid, free from impurities. The seed can be treated loose or confined in a cheesecloth bag for easier handling. Make sure to stir the solution at intervals to ensure wetting all seeds and do not treat over a pound of seed in a gallon of acetic acid solution. Immediately after treatment, dry the seeds and treat with a seed protectant.
Although the fermentation process and acetic acid treatment result in some reduction in germination, this is usually negligible.
Hot Water Treatment
A hot water soak for vegetable seeds, including tomato, has long been recommended. Soak seeds at 122° F (50° C) for 25 minutes in a water bath with agitation to maintain uniform heat. A dairy or laboratory thermometer is recommended for accurate readings. Following treatment, plunge the hot seeds into cold water, thoroughly dry on newspaper, and then dust with a protective fungicide. Freshly harvested seeds withstand the heat treatment better than do one- or two-year-old seed, and treatment should be made as soon after harvest as possible. Hot water treatment will control seedborne bacteria, but will not eradicate TMV. Similarly, it will have no effect on bacteria borne in the embryo (bacterial canker) or TMV contained within the endosperm.
Other Treatments for Virus
No additional information is available for controlling internally borne bacteria for bacterial canker. Several other treatments are available for removal of seedborne TMV: soak seeds for 30 minutes in a 10% solution of household bleach (0.525% sodium hypochlorite, NaOCl); soak for 15 minutes in a 10% solution of trisodium phosphate (Na3P04), often used to soften dried paint brushes; soak for 6 hours in 5% hydrochloric acid (HCl). A more-drastic treatment of using dry heat at 158° F (70° C) for a period of 4 days will inactivate internal virus, but even this treatment is not successful if the virus is in the seed endosperm. For this last treatment, seeds should not be treated within 3 months of harvesting, or germination will be affected.

[Worth1]

Where in tar nation is anybody going to get 99% acidic acid?
https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=l&ai=...IsAIwAA&adurl=
What would be the ratio to mix the same thing with 90 grain vinegar which is 10% acidity.
8 teaspoons.

Worth

[ContainerTed]

In that writeup, I saw the word "crockery". I instantly thought of "quackery". The individual who wrote that needs to get out more. They have obviously not walked in the sunshine for a long while. But then, the folks who preach this kind of hog-wash always are trying to get us to not save seeds and BUY theirs.

It's like the danged politicians. Just a bunch of fluff - all smoke and mirrors. Within that writeup I saw only the means for a large commercial operation to have success. While the methods were mostly known to me, the ability to use them on an amateur basis was not there. I could only see a lot of destroyed seeds for us if we even tried those methods.

[carolyn137]

Hellmanns, would you please give us a link for what you posted above b/c, just speaking for me there are several comments that I disagree with very strongly.

And I'd like to know who was responsible for writing it.

Carolyn

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Hellmanns, would you please give us a link for what you posted above b/c, just speaking for me there are several comments that I disagree with very strongly.

And I'd like to know who was responsible for writing it.

Carolyn

I'll see if I can find it again.
Here you go.
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne..._Bacterial.htm

[Worth1]

Figures, Cornell.
You wouldn't get that from a Harvard man or woman.

[Worth1]

Here he is, phone number and all.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...b2UeVl6k3EMwhQ

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Here he is, phone number and all.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...b2UeVl6k3EMwhQ

Worth, I bet the last time he had GARDEN dirt under his finger nails was when he tripped over that high faluting degree and fell into the gardener's wheelbarrow.

Now, listen, I don't doubt his science, but I don't think it applies to the average American trying to grow a few veggies in self defense of the garbage the grocery stores are serving up. Monsanto would be proud of him.

[Hellmanns]

We had a Dr. at one of our research stations here. He loved to tell people how to do things. A friend of mine brought him by once to show the man my operation. The Dr started to tell me how I should be doing things the way he was.

A few days later my friend invited me to attend the field day at the vegetable research station where the Dr was over operations.

[ContainerTed]

As a shop chief in the Air Force, I always look for the strengths in my troops. I had two that were exact opposites. One could fix anything, but couldn't explain why he chose the methods and parts he used. The other couldn't figure out which end of a screwdriver or a wrench to hold, but he could explain in detail how electronic components and circuits worked. He could even design electronics.

So, I paired them together as a team and they ended up teaching each other.

I tend to have the same sort of relationship with "Master Gardeners". I am convinced that if left alone, most of them would starve to death.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

As a shop chief in the Air Force, I always look for the strengths in my troops. I had two that were exact opposites. One could fix anything, but couldn't explain why he chose the methods and parts he used. The other couldn't figure out which end of a screwdriver or a wrench to hold, but he could explain in detail how electronic components and circuits worked. He could even design electronics.

So, I paired them together as a team and they ended up teaching each other.

I tend to have the same sort of relationship with "Master Gardeners". I am convinced that if left alone, most of them would starve to death.

I used to love to sit back and listen to the blind leading blind at the farmers market. Just the other day I visited the farmers market and I overheard a customer asking a vendor how to cure BER, the vendor told the customer to spray his plants with epsom salt.

[carolyn137]

I know that link very well,and just linked to it recently re Bacterial Canker.

I also know Dr.Zitter and after talking to him about symptoms I saw with seedlings in the greenhouse that disappeared when set out I coined the word CRUD to describe it.

MOST importantly if you look at the top this fact sheet is from 1985 and WAY out of date.So much that was written there would never be done today,such as stirring the contents of a fermentation,which introduces oxygen,thus stopping the fermentation.

Finally,please note that the fact sheet is geared towards commercial growers, from the extension Service which is not the same as the individual faculty labs and offices,with the caveat that commercial growers should let the producers of the seeds do the work.

Carolyn, yes,a Cornell alumna and just noting that Zitter is considered one of THE best tomato infectious disease persons almost everywhere,just do a general Google search. When I had a lady from the Cornell Extension who wanted me to grow both OP's and F1's the same year,and I've described this here before,she learned her tomato diseases from Zitter and they wanted me to spray my plants with spores of Early Blight which they would provide.Absolutely NOT said I,and her interns continued with their disease ID's.I can also tell you that I learned more about tomato diseases that summer than I ever thought was possible,
and that's the positive side of all of this.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I know that link very well,and just linked to it recently re Bacterial Canker.

I also know Dr.Zitter and after talking to him about symptoms I saw with seedlings in the greenhouse that disappeared when set out I coined the word CRUD to describe it.

MOST importantly if you look at the top this fact sheet is from 1985 and WAY out of date.So much that was written there would never be done today,such as stirring the contents of a fermentation,which introduces oxygen,thus stopping the fermentation.

Finally,please note that the fact sheet is geared towards commercial growers, from the extension Service which is not the same as the individual faculty labs and offices,with the caveat that commercial growers should let the producers of the seeds do the work.

Carolyn, yes,a Cornell alumna and just noting that Zitter is considered one of THE best tomato infectious disease persons almost everywhere,just do a general Google search. When I had a lady from the Cornell Extension who wanted me to grow both OP's and F1's the same year,and I've described this here before,she learned her tomato diseases from Zitter and they wanted me to spray my plants with spores of Early Blight which they would provide.Absolutely NOT said I,and her interns continued with their disease ID's.I can also tell you that I learned more about tomato diseases that summer than I ever thought was possible,
and that's the positive side of all of this.

Carolyn I know where you went to school and I know you know the man.
Some of us remember things from times past in your writings here.

All I have to say is in any type of research or science you have to have an open mind if not you will be stuck and go no where.
Carolyn I know you like archeology and history.
I know you know how hard it was to convince the community about the age of that Clovis point.


Worth

[twillis2252]

Ted,
Been using your fermenting process. Completed three varieties and fermenting five more. Your process is very simple and precise. Hope everyone uses your method.

[Hellmanns]

Sad thing is, once the BER go's away, he'll swear the epsom salt cured it and will tell all his friends to use it.