Last frost?

[lakshmi]

Hi,

This is my first year starting from seed and just my second year gardening. I seem to have gone a bit crazy over tomatoes and I can't wait to plant them! I know I'm supposed to start them around 8 weeks before last frost which is supposed to be May 3 for Montreal. Most people on forums in my zone seem to put out their plants around June 1st. Am I missing something or are they just being careful?

Thanks,
Lakshmi

I'm addicted and I haven't yet begun!

[carolyn137]

which is supposed to be May 3 for Montreal. Most people on forums in my zone seem to put out their plants around June 1st. Am I missing something or are they just being careful?

*****

What is your gardening zone in Montreal? I have a good friend who gardens there and as I recall it's about a zone 5, which means last average frost date is about May 15th so set out date would be around June 1.

[lakshmi]

I thought our zone was 4B but now it shows as 5A...could it have changed? I did do a search for last frost date at several places but they all show May 3 for Montreal for 2007. From your reply it seems you do wait 2 weeks after the last forecast frost before putting tomatoes out.

I'm sorry, after going through all the forums, reading all the descriptions and seeing all the pictures, I'm just dying to start planting! My friends think I've gone crazy.

Lakshmi

[cdntomato]

Lakshmi, I'm just west of you in Kingston. For the past 2 years I've erred on the side of a June 1 planting...and seriously regretted waiting so long. Here through to you does well aiming for plant out on the May 2-4 (aka Victoria Day) weekend, but I know some who have success with earlier. Bellevue House in Kingston (the old Sir John A MacDonald Homestead) recommends May 10. Have you checked with Mac College at McGill? They might be able to give you a better sense of the pros and cons of various May planting dates. Much depends on how much and where you are planting, how much fussing you are willing to do if poor weather happens, and how much you are willing to lose/replace if disaster creeps in. For example, I plant my 400 containers with me in the city at least a week before I plant out at the farm.

Jennifer, also itchy to plant but having replaced 300+ field tomatoes for a local farmer friend in 2005, am willing to wait for the right signs (weatherwise) plus I grow 3000 plants not near my home

PS Carolyn, my understanding is that Raymond doesn't actually grow maters in Montreal. His plot is much further north out of the city which may explain his later planting dates. When one is not near enough to fuss, one does err on the side of caution naturally.

[lakshmi]

Thanks, Jennifer. I am so new to this I didn't even think of checking with McGill and I live near the Macdonald campus. Last year I planted just 8 plants, all from the nursery and all late since I had just moved. This year I already have seeds for 15 varieties that I just have to try out! In any case, it is definitely on a small-scale compared to you or Carolyn. I am definitely willing to fuss but my inexperience might just kill them off regardless! I am planning on putting black plastic mulch in advance to warm the soil.

Do you sell your plants?...just so I have a backup plan.

Lakshmi

[carolyn137]

PS Carolyn, my understanding is that Raymond doesn't actually grow maters in Montreal. His plot is much further north out of the city which may explain his later planting dates. When one is not near enough to fuss, one does err on the side of caution naturally.

****

Correct and he's not doing it now as I remember after his last phone call of a few months ago.

I have other folks I know in the Montreal area as well as noting plant out dates from folks from that area that I don't know personally, from various former online message sites as well as our Candian subscribers to OTV when that was being published.

But with you being so close, Laks should follow what you say.

Laks, per your comment about me growing lots of plants, in the General Discussion Forum there's a thread about my health. While I used to grow about 500-1000 plants/season on Dec 12th, 2004 I fell and severed all four of the quad muscles in my right leg. The repair, which was not a total repair, functionally, was followed by a new left hip last June and a new right one to go in this May. So I've been in a walker all this time.

So the last two summers I've grown less than 15 plants here at home, grown by Martha in VA and shipped up to me, and planted, cared for and fruits harvested by others.

That's the way it is and that's the way it's going to be, sadly.

[lakshmi]

Hi Carolyn,

I'm so sorry to hear that. I just read the sticky thread ... sounds like you had a very tough time. I'm amazed that you still have the energy to be up at 4 AM answering questions for newbies. Even if you're not growing a lot of tomatoes you are leading to a lot of tomatoes being grown! Small consolation, I know, but I'm sure everyone appreciates it.

Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions (on GW too). I'm going to be growing 11 varieties of heirloom tomatoes where I had planned on none. I have some serious rearranging to do! Who needs beans anyway? ;-)

Lakshmi

[dice]

If you have a supply of bricks, you could
hedge your bet against last frost.

The idea is to surround the transplants
with stacked up bricks a little higher
than the plant. If frost threatens, you
cover them plastic wrap and weigh that
down with more bricks, rocks, dirt, etc.
On sunny days, remove the plastic wrap
so that they don't cook in there.

Once you get a couple of weeks beyond
average last frost date, you can unstack
the bricks and leave them laying around
the plants for evening heat radiators.

There are other things around that can make
temporary 1-plant greenhouses, depending
on how big the transplants are: empty 1 gallon
plastic milk jugs (tops removed in the daytime
to let air circulate in there), tall plastic soda
containers, cake covers from grocery stores,
inverted deep-fry or blanching wire baskets
covered with plastic wrap, etc. Use your
imagination.

Note: If it is still cold in the daytime, too,
all you are doing with these tools is protecting
them from frost damage. They are not going
to grow much in cold, cloudy or drizzly weather,
protected or not.

[lakshmi]

Thanks, dice. I actually do happen to have bricks lying around ...but probabaly a fraction of what I would need.

I had been thinking of making a wooden box frame with 2x2x8's and then stapling plastic onto 5 sides. I would have to prop it open during the day and keep and eye on the temp but I think it would provide good protection at night for the first 2-3 weeks...what do you think? I'm also saving 2L coke bottles just in case but feel like they may be too small for the purpose.

Lakshmi

[dice]

" had been thinking of making a wooden box frame
with 2x2x8's and then stapling plastic onto 5 sides.
I would have to prop it open during the day and
keep and eye on the temp but I think it would provide
good protection at night for the first 2-3 weeks...what
do you think?"

I think that would work great.

Someone also mentioned using coffee cans in a thread
a while back for still quite small transplants. He just
takes them off in the morning and puts them back in
the evening. If you plant your seedlings deep enough,
you can make any size seedling short enough for that.
(Prune off any leaves and branches below the top
couple of sets of leaves, bury it up to there, and the
plant will grow roots from the buried stem.) You only
need this frost protection for a couple of weeks.

The bricks are nice not only for the heat reservoir
but also because blustery winds won't move them
around. (One might add croquet wickets on the inside
to keep some inquisitive small beast from knocking
them over onto the transplanted seedlings.)