Modifying tomato's taste.

[dcarch]

I think there has been discussions regarding if you can improve the tastes of tomatoes. I don't remember what was the conclusion.

I am growing four LGSs this year. Two in highly composted soil, and two in four gallon pots with top soil purchased from HD by mistake ( I was going to get cow fertilizer).

Well, very interesting find.

The two plants in ground produced huge crops of tomatoes and the two in pots produced only a few, but the taste of the potted ones are very different and intense comparing to the ones from ground. Fruits are all about the same size and color.

Would this be a proof that you can actually modify tomatoes' tastes by using differnet growing media/fertilizer?

dcarch

[Lee]

Yep!

I am a firm believer in the following:

1. Temps effect when you get fruit.
2. Sun effects how much fruit you get.
3. Soil effects the taste of the fruit.

Just try Earl's Faux grown in good old NC soil. Very juicy big, meaty, with a strong bite that lasts.
Then try Earl's Faux grown by Earl. Very juicy big, meaty, with an amazing sweet flavor that lasts.

I suspect that in addition to genetics, soil pH and available nutirents/minerals along with the amount of water available all play a significant role in the taste
of the fruit.

Lee

[Ruth_10]

Or, you can go the route of a research group in Israel. I will say upfront that this sounds icky to me.

Nature Biotechnology (advance online publication; doi:10.1038/nbt1312) "Enrichment of tomato flavor by diversion of the early plastidial terpenoid pathway,"

Abstract
We have modified the flavor and aroma of tomatoes by expressing the Ocimum basilicum geraniol synthase gene under the control of the tomato ripening-specific polygalacturonase promoter. A majority of untrained taste panelist preferred the transgenic fruits over controls. Monoterpene accumulation was at the expense of reduced lycopene accumulation. Similar approaches may be applicable for carotenoid-accumulating fruits and flowers of other species.

They article doesn't say what tomato they started with or what the control was for the tasters. They show a photo and the trangenic tomato is lighter in color that the control.

[feldon30]

diversion of the early plastidial terpenoid pathway

Sounds delicious. I guess the idea of growing some old-fashioned tomato varieties was too obvious for them.

[dice]

Seems like the biggest difference between
LGS in topsoil in a container and LGS in the
ground would be water, assuming that you
fertilized both with the same stuff.

(I would say differences in trace minerals, too, but
minerals probably contribute to flavor rather than
attenuate it, and the composted beds should have
a more diverse trace mineral content than the bagged
topsoil. But maybe not.)

[Tomstrees]

My inground tomatoes taste way different than
my potted tomato plants.
I agree with the above, that
ammending your soil with plenty
of organic material everyfall can
enhance flavor, production, and disease tolerance ~

Tom

[Ruth_10]

There must be factors other than and/or in addition to the soil leading to the differences DC is seeing, as he's getting very different production from the two plants. Perhaps the potted plant is under more stress--larger moisture fluctuations, warmer soil, more root bound--and this leads to some of the differences in taste as well. An example would be peppers which are under stress producing fruits with more heat.

Perhaps the experiment that needs to be done is to put garden soil in a pot as a comparator for the plant grown in purchased soil medium and treat them otherwise the same.

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by Ruth_10

There must be factors other than and/or in addition to the soil leading to the differences DC is seeing, as he's getting very different production from the two plants. Perhaps the potted plant is under more stress--larger moisture fluctuations, warmer soil, more root bound--and this leads to some of the differences in taste as well. An example would be peppers which are under stress producing fruits with more heat.
Perhaps the experiment that needs to be done is to put garden soil in a pot as a comparator for the plant grown in purchased soil medium and treat them otherwise the same.

I wish that someone can help taste these tomatoes with me. The difference in tastes between the two is shocking! As if they are completely different varieties.

To me this kind of explains, partly, all the different opinions about tastes from different people growing the same things.

If this can be confirmed by others, this can lead to another interesting area for growing tomatoes. How to enhance taste by modifying the soil.

dcarch

[barkeater]

I can contribute 1 thing here; If you grow it hydroponically, you can modify the taste down to nothing. So, conversely, I agree that the growing medium can also enhance flavor.

And I would also add humidity as another influence in flavor to Lee's 3.

[feldon30]

It is sometimes easy to extrapolate the differences that people find in different gardens, different growing conditions, different climates, as well as the different taste buds that people have and say "ok, you can't draw any conclusions about tomato flavor".

Well I think this is hogwash. I think that each tomato has a maximum flavor potential. The maximum flavor potential of Celebrity is, in my opinion, very low. The maximum flavor potential of Cherokee Purple is, in my opinion, very high.

You can start with the best and get the worst, but you can't start with the worst and get the best. So I pick varieties that have gotten good ratings and, increasingly as I have been able to taste close to 75 varieties, I try to start with ones that are known to do well for some people. If it's a flop in my garden, I know it's a climate or cultivation problem.

I know some people don't have that "ooh aah" response to purple tomatoes. My favorite tomatoes are all purple, so it makes it tough for me to recommend varieties to them. Conversely, I don't taste what people are tasting in most green-when-ripe tomatoes. I've tasted what were described to me as excellent examples of Aunt Ruby's German Green and Green Giant and just didn't taste it. It's a real bummer.

Probably a controversial viewpoint but I've never been afraid of those.

[annecros]

I am considering setting up two earth boxes, one with garden soil from Mom's house, and one with garden soil from my house, treating them the same. Growing a Silvery Fir Tree and an Earl's Faux in each box.

I've grown some very fine tomatoes in my soil here, but not what I remember from my youth. The differences are striking when I visit home, as well. My parents and grandfather always insisted that the Southwest Georgia soil was what made the produce there, and most particularly the tomatoes, so distinctive in taste.

Not very scientific, I know. But, more fun for me!

[dcarch]

Originally Posted by feldon30

---------------
Well I think this is hogwash. I think that each tomato has a maximum flavor potential. The maximum flavor potential of Celebrity is, in my opinion, very low. The maximum flavor potential of Cherokee Purple is, in my opinion, very high. -------------------Probably a controversial viewpoint but I've never been afraid of those.

There is no controversy at all, once we have defined the topic precisely.

Environmetnal conditions can change taste.
Environmental conditions cannot change genetics. (not talking about next generations from mutation, etc.)

I am, again, now just picked a few more LGSs from four plants, and the different tastes are remarkable! Same sunlight, same temperature, same planting date, just different soil (chemistry?).

dcarch

[feldon30]

Garden soil is very heavy and will compact in a container.

[annecros]

Both soils are sandy loam.

[squibT]

Originally Posted by annecros

Both soils are sandy loam.

You still may want to try adding perlite or Turface...It might be a good experiment to try....