Charles Wilber--AGAIN

[MsCowpea]

Does anybody on this forum follow any of Charles WIlber's techniques from HOW TO GROW WORLD RECORD TOMATOES?

I have mentioned this book for years and get nary a nibble of interest. Never could understand this--here's a guy whose container plants produce 100 pounds per tomato plant. He also got 1370 pounds of tomatoes from 4 plants. He holds many Guiness world records. He only fertilizes with special compost and a little alfalfa meal.

This utilization of compost and cover crops is not new but Wilber has special tips to put it all together.

I guess most forums have people more interested in trying as many varieties as possible rather than vastly increasing yields of just a few. Plus the method may sound complicated but it really is simple once you read the book a couple times.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to kudzu (the key compost ingredient). This year I am making the substitutions he recommends for the kudzu. I am trying to be a little more precise in following the instructions but I do have to improvise slightly. Know I will never come close to Wilber's stats but 100 pounds per container sounds like a good goal. Have to do something to overcome our 'cold' winters though.

Any other Wilber fans out there? Doesn't seem to be but I keep asking.

Compost ala Wilber

[nctomatoman]

I think that it is just all about what rings your bell - earliness, yield, study of diseases, tomato history, trying different varieties, going for flavor, assortment of color, hybrid vs heirloom, dehybridizing, crossing and selecting etc. - each of us gravitate toward what really grabs each of our interests. With so many plants growing, if I maximized the yield of each, it would be simply overwhelming! My measly 15-20 pounds of fruit per container grown plant, with my 80 or so pots, suits me just fine! Fine tuning tomato culture, and the study of tomato diseases - going for the earliest fruit, or the largest fruit - are parameters that don't really interest me all that much.

[Tom Wagner]

Interesting fellow, this Charles Wilber, and the following links attest to that.

http://www1.epinions.com/content_63146921604

http://www.gardeniq.com/store/produc...ts,172,94.aspx

How to Grow World Record Tomatoes: A Guinness Champion Reveals His All-Organic Secrets
by: Charles Wilber
publisher: Acres U.S.A., released: October, 1998
price: $10.20 (new), $7.69 (used)

http://www.gardenerscorner.org/subject042348.htm

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Lives.../Profiles.aspx

My guess is that Charles would be about 92, but I can't find much on the web.

My hunch is that comfrey would be a good substitute for Kudzu.

[Suze]

Good to see you posting lately, as I happen to think you have some valuable knowledge to contribute both in gen'l discussion and also the pest/disease forums.

Originally Posted by MsCowpea

I guess most forums have people more interested in trying as many varieties as possible rather than vastly increasing yields of just a few. Plus the method may sound complicated but it really is simple once you read the book a couple times.

Can't speak for everyone else, but in my case, this is certainly a factor. Plus, I grow so many plants, total production of any one plant isn't a big deal.

(I do try to keep that in mind when advising folks what varieties to grow when I am asked, and I should probably also keep that in mind when suggesting cultural techniques.)

Also. the main factor that seems to affect my yields here is the heat. This might not be so much a factor for you, growing your main crop in winter. I can't do that here. My primary goal is getting those plants to set some fruit before it gets too hot, or in the case of fall crop, hoping there's enough time between when it gets cool enough for fruit set and a freeze.

Having said all that -- I'll add that I've come to the conclusion/realization that some folks don't feed their plants enough *after* they set fruit, whether it be by organic or "chemical" methods. I've been guilty of this in the past, and have seen the error of my ways. Rena (IMISSCOLO) and I were recently discussing this, and she's observed the very same thing.

I also think that starting out with great soil (preferably well draining, with a lot of compost/OM) is an enormous help in getting those plants to reach their potential.

Again, because I grow so many plants, I usually take the easy way out and purchase whatever I need for soil improvement. Delivered loads of compost, feed products (corn meal, alfalfa, etc.). There's no practical way from a time or raw materials perspective that I could ever come up with enough self-produced compost for all my plants. I do compost, but it's not nearly enough for my needs.

As far as you can tell from reading his book (I've not read it), is there something particularly special or different about his recommendations for making compost that would explain the results he is/was getting? The way I understand it (and please feel free to disabuse me of this notion) compost is compost, regardless of how it was made. Yes/no?

Obviously, you don't want to give too much of the book away in terms of shedding too much light on the special tips, but what do you see as other benefits of his techniques? IOW, what other things is/was he doing that you might see as being helpful in increasing harvest?

[Mantis]

Apart from compost, his other main technique is surrounding the plants with a square of thick, maybe a foot or more thick, of biscuits of hay. His thinking is that tomatoes love to spread their roots widely and shallow. In this way the soil for a wide area around the plants is not disturbed and is kept cool and weeds are surpressed. Inside the square around the plant stem he puts a very light mulch of grass clippings.
I tried this on one plant a few years ago and couldn't believe the amount of good sized fruit , and the health of the plant. Unfortunately, a 113 deg day when I was away, burnt all the plants tips, then desease set in , and none of the fruit ripened before the plant died. Bummer
I think his techniques have a lot of merit, but eh, what would I know.

[MsCowpea]

I hope I didn't sound like I was criticizing people whose interests lies elsewhere. Even thinking about trying to optimize yield on lots of different varieties makes me smile (and cringe) . Can you imagine harvesting 100 to 200 pounds from each plant and having 75 plants or more ?

Your whole life would be consumed with getting rid of tomatoes.


I think people who enjoy experimentation with the culturing part of the hobby may be interested in WIlber's book. I want as MANY great tasting tomatoes as possible but I don't want this high yield at the expense of taste so I would not want to load up on the synthetic fertilizers as they do when trying for a giant vegetable. You also have to have the compost-making obsession which can make you as nutty (or driven) as the tomato-loving one.

I am getting to the point where I would like to grow more of the tomatoes I KNOW taste great than the usual 100 with all sorts of disappointments (taste and yield).

I will still try new ones but I would like lots and lots of my favorite tomatoes to use and give away--that is where Mr. Wilber comes into it.

Tom, I only wish I had enough comfrey to put in the compost—that would be an excellent addition . There is an interesting book from England that expounds on its benefits for tomatoes.

Suze, I also agree that many people don't fertilize enough. All they hear about is don't 'overfertilize' as you get all plant and no tomatoes but then they basically don't fert. at all especially as the season progresses. Particularly containers. You can tell from some of the pics posted.

As far as the secret to the Wilber method--lots of people use compost and cover crops. Even Earl's 'method' mirrors some of Wilber's components and Earl gets wonderful results with very high yields.

The difference must be the high nitrogen kudzu (he uses both fresh and dried) though he says you can substitute alfalfa or soybeans. He also adds cow manure and various other powdered amendments.

Following his basic method with modifications I used alfalfa hay, grass clippings, and horse manure and bedding. Plus I added Sun hemp which is the cover crop I am growing (super high in nitrogen) and huge bunches of bananas, of all things, as I had some that had blown over in the yard.


Now for this season coming I can't wait to try it in some containers following WIlber's instructions. (And also in a few raised beds as I won't have enough to do all.) The only drawback is our 'cold' winters--I will have to figure out how to cover my 20+ foot tall tomato plants with the 300 pounds of tomatoes on them. Ha Ha!