Seedlings - Slow growth

[OmahaJB]

Not posting this as a question really, just wanted to vent my frustration with my seedlings this year. I've started tomato & pepper seeds the past 3 years, and this is definitely the longest it has taken them to grow to the size needed for transplanting.

I moved from Omaha to Toledo last August so I'm in a different location. I'm using the same type of seed starting soil, the same lights, the same length of time for the lights being on per day. The only real difference is in Omaha I was able to set the seedlings in the middle of a spare bedroom, under the lights. In Toledo they are confined to a walk-in closet that is about 4 1/2' deep and about 4' wide. So it's possible poor air circulation is to blame. I do have a small fan, but don't like using it with the seedlings being in small 2 & 4 inch containers - the soil drys out too quickly.

There is some good news however, my Black Cherry seedling is doing extremely well and is the best of the bunch. 1884 & Mammoth German Gold are right behind it. The others that are doing fairly well in size are diseased to varying degrees. Mexico, Akers West Virginia, NAR, Czech's Bush, Red Rocket, Soldacki, Black Sea Man, KBX, & Cherokee Chocolate are the ones infected. KBX looks like a tall stick with just a couple of leaves remaining. Since I didn't have Daconil I pinched off portions of leaves or whole leaves to get rid of the infected area in the beginning. I stopped doing that knowing I'd be getting Daconil soon. So I separated them from the healthy seedlings, and will try to save those infected.

I don't know what the disease is - the ends of the leaves turn yellowish and have small black spots or blotches on them. Then the ends of the leaves kind of curl and start dying. Hopefully Daconil will save them. Will be getting some next Friday or Saturday.

I started potatoes in grow bags that are outside over at my mother's house. They seem to be doing decently, however grow bags are frustrating to use with potatoes, since you have to gradually fill the grow bags with soil. Since they are not filled up yet they obviously wont stay open so the sun can hit the plants. Next year I'll use 5 & 10-gallon plastic containers I think.

And I love growing lettuce! This is my first year for getting any to germinate. They are still very small but I have one that is doing really well and it's giving me an idea of what they will grow to look like. The color is nice - I'm growing Yugoslavian Red & Pirat.

I'm also enjoying watching my garlic grow. Thanks again to Alex in B.C. for sharing some of his great varieties with me. I have 15 that grew for me. Some with very thick stalks. Can't wait until the end of July (approximately) for them to be ready to pull out of the ground.

Will also be trying corn, melon, & rhubarb!!! The temps are warming a bit so I'm going over to my mother's today to weed & plant some melon seed. I had some seedlings but they bit the dust. Orangeglo, Ali Baba, Kansas, Thayer, Collective Farm Woman, & Charentais will all get a chance to grow.

Should be a fun year for me for gardening. Even if none of my pepper seedlings are doing well. They are also growing excruciatingly slowly.

Ok, my venting/sharing is over for now. Until I think of something else. Oh yeah! My Cinnamon Basil is a bit of a disappointment - I like Genovese Basil better. The Cinnamon isn't that strong smelling or tasting.

Jeff

[OmahaJB]

BTW, I posted this in the starting from seed forum because I did start all of these from seed. If the moderators decide to move it to the general discussion area that will be fine. I probably should have put it there to begin with.

Jeff

[OmahaJB]

Update:

Very disappointed with how many of my tomato seedlings are diseased. Unfortunately, my seed starting space was a bit limited this year so I couldn't afford to lose as many as I have. I tried saving them by moving them away from the healthy ones, and pinching off the diseased areas on the leaves. Just yesterday I was finally able to buy some daconil so I'll try that, but it's almost surely in jest. The seedlings are just in too bad of shape - I couldn't continue pinching off the leaves or I would have had just sticks. So I have about 10 that I haven't tossed yet. We'll see what the Daconil does for them.

I do have 1884 & Black Cherry that are more than ready to transplant. Mammoth German Gold started showing signs of disease a couple days ago so that's one of the 10 I'm working on. Almost forgot I also started Polish Dwarf late and that one is healthy. Just too small to transplant yet.

This morning I went ahead and bought a couple hybrids (no stone throwing please). At Home Depot they had 2 Better Boys started in the same container for $2.98. I bought them and a Big Beef seedling for $1.98. So at least I'll have those plus the 1884 & Black Cherry. One of the threads had Better Boy mentioned a couple of times so I was happy to see HD had some today. Hopefully I'll have results as good as others have had with it.

And the lettuce slowly trudges along after the transplanting into separate containers. Beautiful burgundy color on the Yugoslavian Red.

Peace, Jeff

[OmahaJB]

Finally able to get 6 tomato seedlings planted in the ground this morning. Weather prevented it last weekend. Although it's late to plant, I think they'll still have enough time to produce.

2 Better Boys, 1 Big Beef, 2 1884's & 1 Black Cherry. During the week I'll probably take my Mammoth German Gold over to plant as well. It's definitely ready, but was affected a little by disease so I want to be sure I have that under control before planting. I would not be happy if it infected the other plants already in the ground. And I have about 11 others that I'll be looking at later today to decide whether to toss or give a chance in the garden. As long as I don't see reoccurence of disease on them I'll plant a few, not expecting much. Most of their leaves had to be snipped but I'd still like to try. Some good varieties in the mix so I'll give them a chance.

Potatoes & garlic still doing super! And lettuce indoors doing alright. I actually planted two today in the ground, but I expect nothing from them. Rabbits in the area and I did come across a slug today, so chances that the lettuce grows to maturity are tiny.

Will be starting a few seeds for the dwarf project this evening. They'll be for a late season garden.

[maryinoregon]

OmahaJB, I live in slug and snail heaven on earth. (Western Oregon) Get thee to a garden center and get some Sluggo, or Worry Free or Escargot or another by Shultz that I can't remember the name of. (Iron based baits) They do work, and your chances of having lettuce improves greatly.

How is your weather? Ours is abnormally cool and has been for over a month. Hard to get anything to grow but cool weather crops.

Home Depot is limited for good tomato varieties. At least you got some plants. Any local garden stores you could check out? You might find some heirlooms there. That has been my experience anyway.

Good luck and all the best.

[OmahaJB]

Thanks for the advice MaryinPNW. This year I've had to scale back on my first outdoor garden partially due to limited funds, but mostly due to diseased seedlings. The limited funds for gardening has mostly affected me in terms of container gardening (soil), but also for things like mulch & Sluggo. That's the primary reason I decided to grow the lettuce indoors, with the exception of the two I planted out to experiment with a bit. Honestly, I don't expect those two to survive. Even if the slugs or rabbits don't get to them, I think my feet may have - after I planted them last weekend I accidently stepped on both while tending to the tomato plants - Doh!

Actually, we do have some good greenhouses & nurseries around here, but knowing I couldn't afford it this year I didn't want to make a special trip just to look around. In a way it might be better this way, as I'll have more time to concentrate on what I am growing rather than having a larger garden that maybe I would have had a tougher time with. Then next year I'll increase my number of plants.

Our weather was actually fairly warm for 2 or 3 weeks getting into the high 80's & low 90's, but this week it's settled back into the 70's for highs. We've had our share of rain but nothing like what Iowa and surrounding states have received. We did have some severe winds and heavy rain storms but the only thing I had out was my garlic and potatoes. Guess it was a blessing I got a late start on the tomatoes! Seedlings would not have survived 70+ mph wind gusts, I don't think.

Hey, someone actually replied to my thread besides me. Thanks! I was about to post a question asking myself how things are going with my garden! hah....

[gardengalrn]

Jeff, I have appreciated your updates immensely. I too have felt like this year was a trial with all the disease/pests/weeds/weather. But, I have bucked up and am planning next year already. I never imagined a grasshopper problem like this, it is really of biblical proportions. They have eaten EVERYTHING in sight. Flowers, veggies, ornamentals, you name it. I had cursed the Jap Beetles in KY but this is way too overwhelming. My chicken coop is a modified tin shed and as I walk by you would swear it is hailing with all the grasshoppers jumping.
My potatoes didn't do so well but made a nice supply of new potatoes. My garlic did quite well although not as big as I would have liked. Flavor is outstanding! Onion crop did exceptionally well and I would plug Dixondale Farms again if anyone is interested in buying plants. I'm glad you got some lettuce to germinate because I have found the difference between fresh out of the garden and store-bought is very like the tomato. Peas did very well, too. I planted Super Sugar Snap, Eclipse, Green Arrow, Mr. Big and Lincoln. Mr. Big did not do well...big pods that never filled out. The others were excellent in production and taste. My beans have not faired well, the grasshoppers love them. Cabbages and collards were eaten by worms. Peppers are doing OK, did get some beauties from Purple Beauty and Gypsy so far. No root crops survived, mostly due to weeds. Tomatoes have been a trial. Stupice produced first and has kept pumping them out. I've had a few Black Krims (this variety has been a consistent winner for me over the years. Taste is not like the Cherokees or Carbon but it just keeps pumping them out despite hardship) and a Lucky Cross that was great. I had originally thought I had a strange disease problem but it turns out that it is BER coupled with a very bad sting bug infestation. Black Cherry, Snow White and Sweet Baby Girl have all won kudos from both DH and my workplace. I have been offered money for them, LOL! I of course just keep filling the containers DH brings home and tell them to appreciate the diversity, such that it is. I have modified my plans for next year time and again and it may change before fall. To combat or rectify my mistakes of this year I plan to:
1. New garden plot next to the house. The concept of this year's garden was good but not well thought out. It is too far from the house, next to the barn and enclosed in a tall fence (previous owners had Emus). I thought that was a dandy place, fertile and safe from deer. I did not consider the wind, pasture weeds or pests...grasshoppers. Plus, I have not seen a single deer on the property, LOL.
2. Smaller is better. I would rather plant 20 tomato plants and have them do well than the 60 or so I did this year and have them fail. When I think of all the work that went into it, I get ill.
3. Floating row covers for my brassicas
4. Drip irrigation to help with the BER and other problems associated with weather conditions.
5. Some kind of mulch. I did mulch with straw but it was no match for the terrible bind weed problem out there. You know you are in trouble when you go to pick a bale of straw up and the bind weed has grown up through it!!! DH is going to try to zap it in the fall, we have had recommendations for products and timing to spray.
6. I will spray chemicals. I appreciate the non-chemical stance but if left to natural remedies, I will have nothing again next year. I will spray early and often. For the amount of beans I planted, I should be begging people to take them off my hands as well as a cupboard full of canned product. I've barely had one meal and that was coupled with some squash since I didn't have enough.
7. I will NOT, under any circumstance, accept manure from neighbors and friends. I will use my own chick poo if needed but this year I got a load of sand burrs and other nasties from the manure.

Those are my plans so far. I have ventured from the raised beds that I wanted so much. I have a son getting married and I don't think the finances will be so I can do things the way I want them. If I invest in raised beds, I want them exactly how I want, ya know? So, I will remove some turf and till and add compost for the coming year.

[OmahaJB]

Lori,

Thanks for the post. I sometimes wonder if people actually enjoy the updates or if they are just reading them because they are new posts to read. I do see the 'views' going up slowly but steadily, so have continued updating this thread. Posts like yours are great to get! At least I know I'm not just posting for my own satisfaction. And by the way, I do enjoy posting the updates because it helps me put things in order in my own mind. Then later maybe I can read back through my own posts and figure out ways I could do things better.

I enjoyed reading how your experience with your garden is going this year. Too bad about the grasshoppers and other problems you've had. But at least you had enough planted that you were able to harvest some things.

Something that caught my eye, you mentioned you already harvested your potatoes. I'm curious when you planted them and also if that is the normal time to harvest potatoes in your area. The reason I ask is because on the potato forum I noticed some folks wait until mid-late September. I've been really anxious to dump one of my growbags to get a few salad sized potatoes at least, but worry I may even be jumping the gun to get that size. Since I only have 11 growbags of taters I'm not comfortable with the idea of potentially wasting one by harvesting way too early.
Beans are kind of a sore subject with me. I purchased 4 varieties from SSE, types like Boston Favorite and Calypso, but couldn't grow them this year due to space limitations when starting seedlings. I bought them 2 years ago and worry they wont be good next winter when I start my seeds. I really wanted to give them a try so am disappointed.

But then again was disappointed when most all of my seedlings went down with some type of fungus. Besides Black Cherry the only OP's I have are 1884 which is stingy in producing fruit and Mammoth German Gold which I can't expect to do much considering all the challenges it's had. And I do have the Czech's Bush that was another of the stumps that I expect nothing from. It's still very small.

Another thing I'm curious about Lori, have you had any challenges with drought? I know you can water, but when I lived in Omaha drought affected alot of farmers and gardeners especially in the central & western parts of the state.

Thanks again for chiming in. Feel free to use this thread if you wish to update your garden as well. I enjoyed reading your post. And I encourage others to share their updates unless they prefer to do so in the general discussion area.

It's nice to know there are folks following my (boring) upates. Only wish I had more varieties to talk about! Next year!! Hopefully...

[OmahaJB]

August 10th:

Stopped by to water the garden real quick. The Big Beef tomato that was closest to being ripe had BER so I pulled it off the vine. Have to get this 'even watering' thing down a little better.

Took 3 more Black Cherry tomatoes home to finish ripening.

Other than that everything looks ok or at least as expected. Too early to tell if the Mammoth German Gold flower pollinated or not. Some of the vegetation on the potato plants is already brown and appears dead. Still a little hesitant to cut it off in case 'transferring' of energy is still going on deep inside somewhere somehow.

One thing's for sure, I'll be more organized next year when I start seeds. For a number of reasons I wasn't able to do things when & how I wanted to. I'll be planting out earlier even if it means buying a few 'wall-o-water' thingies to protect the plants. It's disheartening to see things like the melons, corn, and a couple tomato plants growing knowing I wont get any produce out of them. All planted too late.

Next year...yeah....next year...

[fourtgn]

Omaha,
Don't worry, we're not just reading because the posts are new! I tried to grow some tomatoes from seed the last two years, but each time had to go out of state for several weeks in the middle of July and, of course, everything was dead when I returned. This is the first year I have had a chance to stay put and see this garden thing through. I don't have anyone that I can watch do the job, so I have found your thread and followed what you are doing. Hope you don't mind being watched!

I have grown a lot of gardens in the past, in a different zone, but this is new to me. I am THRILLED to see my tomato plants growing, blooming, and setting fruit. But these are the ones I got at the garden center and they just say Big Cherry on them. My heirlooms are smaller and I am counting on the long growing season down here to see some fruit from them. I still can't believe that I sprouted them and got them this far alive. Even if they don't make fruit before it freezes down here, now I know that I can do it.

I've already got a map of the gardens for next year up and going.

Can't wait for your next post. Don't forget those pictures!
fourtgn

[fourtgn]

Gardengal,
Sorry to hear about the grasshoppers. That must be awful. I know what you mean about having the garden closer to the house, though. My first garden here in Texas was a five minute walk from the front door in a place where you couldn't even see it. Needless to say, when I got busy, the garden was forgotten. I am a very out-of-sight, out-of-mind kind of person.
I am excited to hear about next years successes with your veggies!

fourtgn

[gardengalrn]

Jeff, I planted them on March 24th. They got infested with beetles and the plants were dying so I went ahead and pulled them. I would say weeks to even a month ago. They were small but decent for new potatoes and were delicious. I would think that as long as your plants are still alive, you can leave them be. I was of the understanding that you harvest when the plants start to die back. As far as drought, I think it has definitely been hard on the garden. It was such a wet spring then BAM...nothing for quite some time. I want to get drip irrigation for next year, I really think that is the way to go to try to avoid uneven watering and water on the foliage.
Oh, and I wanted to mention that the bean seeds should be fine. I had bought new seed for several varieties but went ahead and planted some Rattlesnake, which were at least 4 years old. They sprouted right along with the others. I had worried because I don't think bean/pea seeds have the viability that tomato seeds do.

[OmahaJB]

fourtgn,

I can understand why you and your neighbor were upset about the theft. I've heard at 'some' (not all) community gardens they have a little trouble with other gardeners sampling from other gardener's plots. Not cool!

And BTW, my boss has been bringing in tomatoes (a hybrid I'm sure as I tasted one today - bland but juicy), and zucchini. And me, I'm still waiting for even a Black Cherry to fully ripen! I did plant out late, so I have to remind myself of that - constantly.

Lori,

You started your potatoes a full two months before I did, so no wonder your's did so well already! I'll have to remember that trick. Maybe I'll start mine indoors in early-mid April or something along those lines next year.

And I agree about the drip irrigation. My method this year isn't working. I typically get to the garden about twice a week and water if necessary. Most of the time it is. But I've already lost 4 tomatoes to BER, including my large 1884.

This week I do expect to see at least a few Big Beef & Better Boy toms ripening, along with many of the Black Cherry tomatoes. The ones I have sitting on the counter still have a ways to go to fully ripen. But one is pretty close!

[OmahaJB]

August 13th:

Finally had my first Black Cherry tomatoes yesterday. They weren't fully ripe but close. They tasted different than I had imagined, but were still pretty good. They weren't much different than I'd expect from a good red tomato. Guess I was expecting a 'chocolatey' or 'smokey' taste in the mix, but got something that was a little tart & acidic with a strong but good aftertaste. No hint of sweetness to my tastebuds. After having one, I wanted the other 3 I had on the counter!

Also yesterday, I pulled 2 or 3 tomatoes with BER off Better Boy & Big Beef. I do think a drip irrigation system is something I'll have to look into next spring.

[OmahaJB]

August 14th:

Picked a couple more Black Cherry tomatoes this afternoon. They actually had an even better taste than the others I had a couple days ago. The ones today had a more assertive flavor. The last one even reminded me of a grape! Interesting flavor to say the least. Very good! I'd say an 8.5...