my project tomato anna russian cherry x

[rxkeith]

a couple years ago, an anna russian tomato in my garden gave me small elongated cherry tomatoes with a small point on the end.
i planted seeds from the cross last year and got three different fruit forms, a round cherry tomato, a torpedo shaped cherry tomato, and a small plum shaped cherry tomato. this year i am growing out the f3 plum shaped tomato. i have five plants starting to bulk up well, and blossom.

should i save seeds from each plant at this stage or just the best candidate to carry forward. flavor can vary
i know from year to year and with different generations while stabilizing a cross.
i don't have a specific goal in mind other than to see what i can come up with.




keith

[bower]

Hi Keith,
You can move forward in the F3 just by saving seed from your best flavored fruit. But if you happen to have more than one which is just as tasty, it is worthwhile to save seeds from more than one. You might grow your favorite forward and be perfectly satisfied, but sometimes you can end up missing an important trait as you go forward. Foliage health, growth habit, productivity, shape, just tossing out some side issues that could be a source of disappointment if there happens to be a miss. You can even end up with a miss on the taste.
So I like to save some seeds from siblings in each generation where there is no obvious lack of merit but for one reason or another didn't make top choice. It's a way of hedging your bets, not only if you have to go back to recover a trait, but you can also grow out two siblings and backcross them to firm up a trait you're looking for.

[rxkeith]

bower,

those are some of my thoughts.

of the five plants, three have that growing to the sky cherry tomato look about them.
two have more compact growth. all are doing very well after rain showers the past couple days.
i will have to be a little organized with my observations and note taking.
i am also wondering how much garden space to devote to the project.
i think five plants of each generation is a decent amount. more might be better.
i have the torpedo shape, and cherry type f2 tomatoes still to grow.
if i get something promising this year, the other two may have to wait.
i hope to get something decent with anna russian being a parent.
i will update later once i start getting tomatoes.



keith

[rxkeith]

i have an update sooner than i thought.
i am getting first fruits growing on each plant, and its a mix as to be expected.
one plant has roundish fruit with slight ribbing at the top.
one plant has torpedo or bullet shaped fruit with a small point on the end.
one plant has plum shaped fruit with ribbing. a truss with two branches on it, one of the branches has heart shaped fruit on it similar to anna russian. i don't know whats going on with that one.
one plant is plum shaped with a wide bottom.
one plant has only small fruit yet, too soon to tell. may be elongated fruit.

the plants are all doing very well, many blossoms, more tomatoes to follow.



keith

[bower]

Shape genetics are so complex, you're bound to get some surprises when one of the parents is a heart.
Five or six is a good number to grow if you have limited space and you're hoping to pick up a recessive trait, you have a good chance of finding it. If you were looking to recover size, you would need to grow ten or more hoping to get a large fruit in your F2 or F3. But if you don't have space and you don't find what you want from 5 plants, you can always try again the next year with the same generation. And there's always luck!

[slugworth]

The original anna russian I have;the round ones had BER.
The pointy end ones are fine.

[rxkeith]

two of the five plants have gangly growth. each of these plants is producing a large number of flower trusses, more so than any other tomato in the garden. if taste is decent these two plants may be worth stabilizing if productivity stays the same. i could get a lot of tomatoes from these two plants.

now, one of the two plants is giving me two different fruit types. one is heart shaped
similar to anna russian, and the other is somewhat blocky with some ribbing at the shoulders. put them side by side, and they look like they came off two different plants.
fruit is already past cherry tomato size.
what can i expect from future generations of this plant fruit wise as genes continue to segregate? anyone care to hazard a guess?




keith

[rxkeith]

upon further observation today in the garden, it looks like plant 5, the one with two
different shapes on it is a shape changer. the tomatoes when small are heart shaped.
as they get bigger, they become a blocky more or less round shape. size is approaching
saladette type tomatoes. trusses have up to 20 tomatoes on them.

so, i have pear shaped with a nipple, plum shaped with a nipple, plum shaped with a squared off bottom, and a fat plum growing in addition to the shape changer.
final size, and color still to be determined for each one.


keith

[rxkeith]

plants are all loaded with tomatoes.
the largest of the plum type tomatoes are in the 4 to 6 oz range, a guesstimate.
all tomatoes are bigger than the original f1 cross. if this is size recapture, then
i have some of that going on. fruit are all still green. the plant with the smallest fruit
resembles the f1 plant the most. those fruit are about 2oz, and are elongated, torpedo, or bullet shaped.
just waiting to see some color start to show. c'mon, c'mon, c'mon.



keith

[rxkeith]

had my first taste today of the shape changer tomato. the fruit start out heart shaped than change to a blocky rounder shape. a great amount of anticipation trying that first bite not knowing what to expect. it had a tangy assertive acid bite to it. maybe could have ripened another day, but i wasn't waiting any longer.
it is an orange tomato, about 4oz. i have another one sitting on the window sill to finish
ripening. once more start ripening i can compare further taste, and start saving seeds.

the smaller pear shape plant is loaded. fruit size looks to be in the 2 to 4 oz range.
the plum, and pleated plum tomatoes are in the 4-6 oz range.




keith

[Whwoz]

Comes back to space and time Keith. The more space you have the more plants you can growout, the more you can compare between the ones you like more and like less. Space and time will limit how many of these you choose to grow - space is obvious, time will effect the project by way of record keeping, from tagging each plant to keep track of its ancestry so that you know what line it is from, to taking photos of each plant and its fruit (do not rely solely on memory, it can play tricks) and written descriptions are important particularly in relation to taste.

Then there is the decision that you may want to make about ones that you think are worth growing on but do not have room for - do you grow different lines in alternate years or do you offer seed/plants to others to grow on

[rxkeith]

i have lots of space, but we like to grow other things too, not just tomatoes, and why didn't i grow sun gold my wife scolded me earlier in the year.
i am thinking i have to grow a pink plum next year in addition to the small pear/plum tomato, and the small oxheart type tomato. this year taste was too good to just leave on the shelf for a year. that would give me three tomatoes significantly different from each other. probably 4 to 5 plants again for diversity.

three of my five plants sized upward to tomatoes in the 6oz range i would guess.
in the f4 stage, can i expect any further sizing up in the two smaller tomatoes i plan
to regrow?

or could any of the larger tomatoes size downward again?

at what stage will size be pretty much fixed, assuming two open pollenated parents in the initial cross, and no further crossing occurs? can size continue to vary in the f4 generation or beyond?

in regards to flavor, i don't know how difficult it is to fix a consistent flavor during the
stabilizing process. i know it depends on what you are dealing with to some extant. by f6 or f7 generation i should expect a finished product one way or the other.



keith

[rxkeith]

time to update.

planted today are seeds from three of the five plants i grew out last year.
these are f3 seeds, plants will be f4.

little red plum is my lempi line.
sweet flavor, prolific.

small red somewhat heart shape is my aili line.
has an acidic bite, good flavor, prolific.
rainy september caused a lot of late ripening fruit to split.

near full size pink plum is my mama helen line.
this one was a bit later than the other plants.
good flavor, prolific.

on the shelf for now is an orange plum, very meaty, not much juice.
flavor on the sweet side.

pink plum, similar to mama helen in size.
this one is on the shelf because it had more blossom end rot.
not as juicy as mama helen, and flavor not good.
still a good tomato. prolific.

six seeds of each were planted.




keith

[rxkeith]

up and running.

six for six on lempi, and aili lines. one of the seedlings is stunted, appears to be tricot.
mama helen, only three out of six came up. three plants prolly isn't enough diversity at the f4 stage, but thats what i have to work with this year.
very curious to see what develops this year.



keith

[rxkeith]

most plants are doing well after transplanting. they are about 4 to 5 inches tall, and will
need to be moved to the basement to keep the growth slow, but steady. that and i need
room on the plant stand in the upstairs bedroom.

i noticed two different foliage types on the lempi line, the smaller plum tomato, similar
in shape to maglia rosa only bigger. some have rounder lobe leaves while two plants
have narrower jagged shaped leaves like the anna russian parent.
no clue how that will translate to tomato characteristics, but thats all i got for now.

i planted several more mama helen line seeds april 20th, and have only one vigorous
seedling to show for it. poor germination for some reason with this line.
i told my sister i will be naming a tomato in development after our mom.
sister asked if it would be called "mother theresa i am not"
i replied, nah, too long of a name.



keith