Which tomato has the most diverse DNA?

[rubbe87]

Would crossing wild species whit each other increase genetic diversity and would there be benefits? Has there been such attempts?

[Worth1]

I have no idea but plants aren't people/animals and it is sometimes hard to make that realization.
Crossing can create hybrid vigor or create the worst of both species or strains.
With a hybrid self pollinating tomato it is a one shot deal if you cant stabilize it.
Right now I have two hybrid agave and I have no idea if the seeds from them would produce the same thing as most are just clones or collections of pups from the original cross.


Worth

[Fred Hempel]

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/conten....full.pdf+html

[dmforcier]

Speaking of "genetic diversity" within a single species/variety is an oxymoron.

It is what it is, not what it is not.

[Fred Hempel]

If you are saying that "species" can not be diverse, I completely disagree. There is considerable genetic diversity within species, and some species are much more diverse than others. No species is uniform genetically, except when there is only one individual left in a species.

If you are using "species" as synonymous with "true-breeding variety" that is a mis-use of the term "species"

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Speaking of "genetic diversity" within a single species/variety is an oxymoron.

It is what it is, not what it is not.

[dmforcier]

Did you miss my use of the word variety?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Did you miss my use of the word variety?

I didn't miss your use of the word variety and I agree completely with Fred.

How many times have you seen me and others post to never save seeds off just one plant of a variety,better two plants,even better three plants,etc.

There are SUBTLE mutations happening all the time with almost all varieties, DNA is not static,hence,preserving the genetic diversity within a variety.

Carolyn

[Fred Hempel]

Yes. Your writing species/variety is incorrect. It implies that they are the same. They are not.

All varieties of tomatoes are a part of the same, single, species.

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Did you miss my use of the word variety?

[dmforcier]

Oh back off. That was shorthand for "variety, a subset of species".

So, do you believe that the poster is asking which variety has the highest incidence of mutation?

If it's not that, then what does the question mean?

[Fred Hempel]

The poster asked about species, and that is what I assumed they meant. Particularly because they asked about which "wild species" might be best to use.

I do not think the question was about incidence of mutation.

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Oh back off. That was shorthand for "variety, a subset of species".

So, do you believe that the poster is asking which variety has the highest incidence of mutation?


If it's not that, then what does the question mean?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Oh back off. That was shorthand for "variety, a subset of species".

So, do you believe that the poster is asking which variety has the highest incidence of mutation?

If it's not that, then what does the question mean?

Here was the original question

(Would crossing wild species whit each other increase genetic diversity and would there be benefits? Has there been such attempts?)

As the thread got longer other info as to genetic diversity was introduced in addition to crossing with wild species, not specified, and I for one,have no problems with that at all.

So no,the original question was not asking about the incidence of mutation,as I just said, the thread got off track,and why not since using germplasm from wild species is not the only way to be associated with genetic diversity.

My major growing field formanyyears was 250 ft long and 90 ft wide,rows 5 ft apart, and I'd go down the rows recording first blossom,first fruitset,indet or det,leaf form,first color on fruits,first ripe fruits, for each variety in my notebook.

But I never looked at the so called small details of a given variety.

One day I was at a website where Keith Mueller, I knew him from elsewhere, and this subject of diversity came up and he started discussing different internode lenghths, subtle changes in leaf form,time of ripening and more. I looked and he was right.

And well I remember what he said to me...something like those changes are there to see for those who have eyes.

Fusion here knows Keith well,so do I, he knows LOTS about tomato genetics and has also bred some very popular varieties.He got his MS degree with Dr.Randy Gardner at NCSU,one of the best breeders ever.

Here is Keith's website: I didn't take the time to see if he has any new updates.

http://www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/

You can spend hours there,as many of us have,checking out all that he shares with others.

Carolyn

[JLJ_]

This thread has had some great answers -- but it might be worth mentioning one of the techniques used by Fred Pritchard that relates to harvesting benefits of genetic diversity -- if you're interested in century old work.

He was the person at the USDA who in 1918 developed the tomato Marvel from Merveille des Marches and crossed it with Livingstone's Globe to create the famous Marglobe -- which was very important in the 1930's because of greatly improved disease tolerance as well as high quality production for commercial and home uses -- and which is ancestor to many modern varieties.

(Pritchard also developed many other valuable varieties of tomato.)

He compared parent-candidate varieties for intravarietal variation with respect to the property he wanted to introduce or intensify, then worked by selection with a candidate variety that had high intravarietal variation to create a new variety with the target trait more prominently and consistently present. Often, he then crossed that new variety with other varieties that had complementary traits, stabilized the cross and released the new market variety.

I think that has practical application for the many home gardeners who attempt to develop an improved version of some variety by selection -- for earliness drought tolerance, etc . That is, before investing -- and possibly wasting -- many generations selecting, it might be wise to spend a season growing a large number of the variety they want to improve, determine whether it has a lot of intravarietal variation with respect to the target property and if not, use another variety, or use crossing techniques instead of or prior to using selection to achieve an improved variety.

Below is one place Pritchard discusses some of his work. Note that his work was utilitarian rather than theoretical or research oriented -- his goal being to produce tomatoes with desired traits as fast as possible and get them out to growers to grow or to further develop.
--------------------------

https://ia801703.us.archive.org/11/i...il1015prit.pdf


BULLETIN 1015, U. S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE. March 28, 1922

DEVELOPMENT OF WILT-RESISTANT TOMATOES.

By Fred J. Pritchard, Physiologist, Office of Cotton, Truck, and Forage Crop
Disease Investigations.

[carolyn137]

Fred Pritchard's name I know well and also Loran Blood's name as two of many who mainly in the 20's toearly 30's studied the basic traits of tomatoes since back then there were no DNA tests and more sophisticated methods of doing so.

Here's Marglobe from Tania

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Marglobe

And here's a link to a great site from 1927,scroll down to tomatoes,which I have posted many times here and elsewhere on the difference between fibrous and tap root structures.

http://soilandhealth.org/wp-content/...010137toc.html

There were many early breeders such as Blood and Livingston and Pritchard, and they had goals in mind when they crossed tomatoes, and made selections to get what they wanted or close to it.

Carolyn

[frogsleap farm]

It is widely accepted that wild relatives contain significantly more genetic diversity than the modern cultivated types of tomato (commercial hybrids and heirlooms). Charlie Rick estimated that wild relatives harbor 95%+ of the genetic diversity within Solanum. These wild relatives of tomato have contributed the vast majority of genes for resistance to various tomato pathogens, and will likely be a continued sources of genetic variation for tolerance to abiotic stress, and other characteristics . Can crosses to these wild relatives be used to improve cultivated tomato - yes they have. In fact, though it ★★★★es off some heirloom devotees, modern hybrids generally have more genetic diversity than heirlooms due to multiple introgressions of sequences from wild relatives for improved tolerance to multiple diseases.

[Jimbotomateo]

Anyone want decaf? Jimbo