Hidden dangers of manure problems/unless organic.

[michael johnson]

Just about this time of the year -lots of you are thinking of putting manure on your gardens and in your green house border soil etc.

Be very carefull where you obtain it from initialy,because the wheat or barley straw or hay usualy mixed in with it as bedding material for the animals- usualy has been treated when growing in the fields with up to eight different types of herbicide, and umpteeen pesticides.

Tomato plants can somehow sense this in the straw/hay even if it is up to 6 months old, and about a week after you plant them they keel over and die/ or look burnt around the leaf edges.

By far the safest way is to try and get manure from a farm that uses only totaly organic methods of farming.

[Bryan24]

Hmmmm, never noticed an issue with that before. But I think Bryan gets organic manure anyway. And we let it acclimate to the beds for about a month before planting. In fact, he's going out to get the good stuff today!!

laurel-tx

[Ruth_10]

To the best of my knowledge, my sources are not organic and I've never had a problem with it. What are the eight herbicides and umpteen pesticides? Don't know how any farmer could afford eightumpteen herbicides and pesticides.

[elkwc36]

I have been involved in the farming and ranching business in my locale since the early 70's in some form. I know in this area most of the straw and hay isn't sprayed like that. First it costs too much to spray. Crops are only sprayed here if absolutely necessary. Also most of the manure we use comes from the pens as most horses have pens to run in and not shut up in stalls. So little or no bedding. Maybe in other areas and countries practices are greatly different. I have used manure of all kinds for 40 years plus and have never noticed any problems. I just added about 4# per sq. ft. to mine just before the big snows. I also add all the loose hay I have around the stacks and have never had problems there either. So think everyone needs to make decisions based on their area and what is available. Wouldn't be too concerned unless you have experienced troubles before. JMO. Jay

[michael johnson]

Over here in the UK, they routinely spray the wheat and barley crops every single year- with some real nasty stuff, first when the young plants are about six inches high- on goes the first selective herbicide-that kills all broad leaf plants,
Prior to that the land was first given a light spray of that real nasty (Gramoxone ) to clear the land of early breaking weeds, -then later when the crops get going a bit they get several sprays of pesticide to control the aphids at four weekly intervals.
Later on when the crop is nearly ripening-if there are a lot of wild poppies come up and the fields have a red splash to them-they get another spray to kill the poppies before they harvest the crop, as the ministry wont accept the grain into their store houses if it is contaminated with lots of poppy seed, and so the grain has to go for animal feed stuff.- at a reduced price from premium crops.

Hay fields- also have a spray now and again to control thistles in it,

So now you can see why I converted to totaly Organic a few years ago- especialy bread and flour, all mine comes from a real old fashioned windmill-stone ground- organicly grown.

Tomato plants-are very sensitive to all of the above sprays, and can sniff them out up to six months after on straw and hay in bales ,or in manure, I lost a whole years crop once- on straw bales,- planted them all out and they totaly collapsed and died within four days, other people I know had simlar problems with putting straw or hay as a mulch around the base of half grown tomato plants, a few days later all the tip leaves turned white and started to deform and curl up, trusses of flowers didnt set, etc, etc.

This was almost certainly due to the use of (Mosanto's Roundup ) in the straw. -some years back now. we all learned the lesson the hard way- Now we only use total organic farmed manure- If we can get it

[Downinmyback]

In my area we only raised wheat in the winter and it is only used as livestock food so the only spray that the wheat gets is one times for fungi disease and that is only if we have a wet spring so very little spraying is needed as we plant soybeans behind the wheat here and our straw is not organic but close to it because wheat prices are so low that unneccasry spraying cost to much..

[barkeater]

Bull! Even though I personally have never used a chemical herbicide in my fields or gardens, the uptake in any hay or straw is something like 2 parts per million, an infinitesinal amount.

[michael johnson]

Barkeater- I can see that you have obviously never experianced any damage to tomato crops because of straw or hay- regardless of your analasis of chemical uptake etc, so there is little point in trying to enlighten you !!!

However- I would just like to point out one observation,- some time ago thousands of fish were killed which amounted to several tons of fish and several large lorries and trucks to cart the rotting fish away, in fresh water rivers and ponds in the UK, it all stemmed from using bales of hay suspended in the waters edge along large stretches of the river banks and ponds or lakes-which were used to control algae bloom in the water- which it normaly does very well.

However on this occasion the hay meadows had been sprayed in the early spring to prevent large thistles from coming through and ruining the hay for feed stock.

I bet the fish were not counting parts per million- when they lay gasping and dying on the top of the water-it took nearly six months before the waters concerned were passed as being in the clear again.

[flowerpower]

I do not know any farmer who would spray the fields with herbicides or pesticides.First off, way too expensive. Most are hoping thay have enough gas to hay the fields theses days. Also, the animals have to eat it. I would think any toxins would build up in their systems. You can't sell milk or beef full of poison.

I have 10 goats. I use maybe 250 bales/yr. These are big bales about 70 lb each. I use all the spoiled hay in my garden. I have never had a problem. In fact the plants do very well and the soil is beautiful.

My SIL just came back from a month over in Manchester. I better tell her to detox her system.

[michael johnson]

well they do still spray their fields over here, its a common practice that still goes on,

the problem appears to be that they are miss led by the chemical companies who tell them on the sides of the drums and containers that the ground is safe to plant on within xxxx time, and that the fields will be safe to harvest crops that have been sprayed within three days from application -and that sort of thing.

\money and the cost doesnt even enter into it- owing to the generous government subsidies via the european parliment- the french and the dutch benefit most, but english farmers also have a lot as well-despite the fact they are always pleading poverty, they still manage to drive around in large cars and have cut price fuel to run cars and tractors on.

[michael johnson]

Personaly -I would like to rest my case on this point, as I didnt quite realise that there are quite different policies on the chemicals and land saga betwenn the USA and europe, and also that government subsidies to farmers also plays a big part in it all- varying from country to country, typicaly there was a big hue and cry recently on the health front- when hundreds of tons of imported veg from Africa,Spain, and other countries was turned back at the port of entry into the uk, when it was discovered they had up to 45% percent more herbicides and pesticides than the permitted allowance-also massive dosage of fungicides, in lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers,cabbages and greens, green beans,potatoes,etc.etc.
So, I will accept gracefully- that fodder, and straw and hay in the USA etc, are less likely to be contaminated than europe, - but unfortunatly the problem still remains in Europe.

[Althea]

I agree with Michael on this. If nothing else, make sure your inputs are well composted before adding them to your garden.

In my local paper this morning there is an article headlined "State rejects call to review safety of three agricultural chemicals". I agree with the environmental group on this. A review was sought by an environmental group for some of the following reasons:

"But Samuel Yamin, a public health scientist for the environmental group, said that standards for farm chemicals are not always protective enough, especially for the volume of pesticides applied.

"We are not talking about someone using a can of mosquito repellent," Yamin said.

The environmental group submitted 53 studies on environmental and health effects of the three chemicals. In 2005, 1.8 million pounds of atrazine was sold in the state, said Yamin, and the chemical has been linked to reproductive and developmental problems in numerous animal studies. About 2.7 million pounds of acetochlor was sold in Minnesota that year, he said, and federal officials have labeled it a "likely human carcinogen."

Chlorpyrifos, an insecticide that the Environmental Protection Agency banned for lawn use in 2001, is still used on crops and has been linked to brain and nervous-system problems, Yamin said."

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/975765.html

Chlorpyrifos is known to remain active even after a year, I've heard up to three years in a compost pile.

[Granny]

I think the difference here is due to a difference in our environmental regulations. And our environment. Farmers here in New England where barkeater and I live would not think even once of spraying the hay fields with anything. The hay grows, the farmer mows, the hay grows some more. Some hayfields have been hayfields for a couple hundred years up here.

But then we also do not have any big conglomerate agricultural operations in New England either. Most of our vegetable farmers are organic farmers - have been for decades, some of them were front runners in the organic movement. And even our dairy farmers are pretty health concious. No BHG contaminated milk here.

I hear Monsanto is losing so much money because people do not want BHG contaminated milk that they are trying to get the regulations changed to prevent labeling milk as BHG free.

[ZBQ]

I can't see it being a problem in the U.S. because everyone I know uses straw as a covering for newly sown grass seed they even have huge machines that chew up bales and then "blow" it through a big tube to be applicated when they are seeding the grass along long stretches of highway. If there was any herbicides in the straw, they certaintly would not be using it like this.

I have been around hay baling all my life and I have never seen anyone spaying hay and it certaintly isn't because they are organic farmers. There is just no reason to do it.